The "long barreled firearm" deputies carry is either a shotgun or an AR-15. It's beyond weird that this writer felt the need to emphasize that point instead of explaining WHY they thought the car was actually stolen!

So, this guy did nothing wrong and ends up looking down the barrel of at least 6 guns. Then they try to cover themselves by claiming some nonsense about a possible DUI. And that's completely wrong as well. Somebody owes somebody an apology around here.....

That's quite a response for someone who turned out to be innocent!! I wonder what would have happened if the outcome would have been a heart attack or something serious for this civilian? Pretty scarey out here. I think I would have had needed a change of underwear, if nothing else. An apology is due for sure!

I myself have felt self righteous when I get interrogated for something I haven't done but have to remind myself that if deputies are to cautious hurting someone's feelings many criminals would escape the law. If your innocent don't sweat it. As for the guns, can one blame them?

@MrO - "As for the guns, can one blame them?"

Well, I guess everyone of us have reserved opinions about that... I totally understand and support LEO, but sometimes, they overdue it. OK, let's assume it IS a stolen car, is that REALLY reasons for 6 guns aimed right at suspect? BUT, if there is an untold part of this story like: "Driver was allegedly driving a stolen car after a predestrian was hit and possibly killed" ,,,, then, I can see the weapons pointed at suspect... But, for a stinkin stolen car ???

Suppose that an officer's weapon accidently discharged and blew this guy away... We later find out the guy's married with children and was shipped to a local morgue. Now, the kids have no daddy and the wife has no job to support both herself and her children...

Way to go, Sheriff's !!!

Several years back we had 5 Sheriffs at our neighbors house.......they were looking and finally got their snake as in rattle..........and no there is no typo in my comment.........5 as in 1,2,3,4,5!!! Must have been a slow Sunday for them sending so many.

@sreilly - "Must have been a slow Sunday for them sending so many"

Yeah, they call that "back up" !!!

The best Lovelife was watching them "High Five'n" each other......so proud!!! My Dad an Ex Lt with the Detroit cops was here....he is the only one that could understand their excitement.....lol

Phew, I bet this guy is glad that Chris Dorner is dead otherwise they'd have probably filled him full of lead. I can imagine their explanations right now "Last thing I heard he may have been black" said Bryski, however a color blindness test indicated that was not the case.

Probably some peeved spouse or partner who decided to call the car in as stolen to spite the driver for some reason. I heard of this "bogus stolen car report by a pissed off girlfriend" happening when I lived in Texas. In TX, the cops still tow the car and impound it even if they establish that it isn't stolen.

Lovelife: You have no idea about law enforcement. What if a Chris Dorner type, unknown to the officers, was driving that car?

You have to remember you are reading a classic Jim Holt story here, so about 90% of the story is missing. He gets his stories from news feeds or just calling the Sheriff's station and trying to make a story out of it. And he is writing this almost 24 hours after it happened. You have to understand Jim Holt to understand there is a lot missing here.

Like today he probably heard on the scanner there was a bathtub on the 5 freeway. He turned that into two paragraphs about nothing.

"You have no idea about law enforcement. What if a Chris Dorner type, unknown to the officers, was driving that car?"

First of all, I do understand LEO and what LEO is up against. There are plenty of nutjobs out there who hate cops... So, I do understand the dangers of who LEO are dealing with. I have never spent one day with an officer on the road doing his job, so I have no experience, but I do understand that they have a very dangerous job. My nephew, a CHP, has stories that would make even YOUR socks roll up and down. Yep, even yours tacalert - as I believe that you claimed previously that you are LEO.

Second, how does ANY LEO read a license plate as stolen when it's not ??? So, that's my point about "way to go Sheriff" ...

Lovelife, cops ALWAYS have guns drawn on a felony traffic stop, and they'd be crazy not to.

The deputies are supposed to have their guns, yes even six, pointed at a suspected car thief, even if he is only a suspect, that's what they train them to do in their police academy.

Once it was determined this guy was not a car thief suspect and/or DUI and released maybe the deputies did apologize to him. when they let him go. Seems that there is only a partial story here, obviously a more in depth news article would have been better to go off of.

"Second, how does ANY LEO read a license plate as stolen when it's not ??? So, that's my point about "way to go Sheriff" ... "

@lovelife

Five or six years ago my neighbor was pulled over at gunpoint behind Granary Square by a whole bunch of cops with their guns drawn on him. Unbeknownst to my neighbor someone had traded the license plate from his Range Rover with that of another Range Rover that had been reported stolen down in Hollywood or West Hollywood. They took my neighbor in handcuffs to the sheriff station. About 2 hours later my neighbor was back home, the deputies figured out what had happened and then released him, actually drove him home. They did apologize for what he went through, although my neighbor did get a little bit of a kick from all that excitement. He had no idea how long the wrong license plate was even on his car.

Lovelife: @MrO - "As for the guns, can one blame them?" I guess I wasn't to far off. I had the same scenario happen to me in the early 70's. Was suspected of driving a stolen Corvair(great buggy engines). 5 drawn guns with one guy in a crouched position duck walking towards me. Somewhat scary but I did feel save and thought it was humorous.

Since the sheriff’s spokesman Lt. Tom Bryski said they are still trying to figure out why they thought it was a stolen car I guess it was not a case of switched or they would know. Figure out why or come up with an excuse that will stick?

Then they thought they could cover themselves by claiming he was a DUI, but no they could not get away with that. It sounds like they would tried to get him for exp tags, license exp, tint on windows, anything to show they had a reason to do what they did.

I would be very angry if it was my son. One slip and an innocent is gone.

Maybe like Barney Fife they should let them keep only one bullet in their pocket.

cops ready to shoot someone whats new about that? "last i heard he may have been dui" only person whos going to believe that excuse is a naive fool.

Interesting story about your neighbor and his Range Rover. I find that very peculiar about how the police handled it. What I mean is - cops are well informed about vehicles and how to quickly find out who the registered owner is. I'm not a cop, but I do understand the registration process. Let's say someone steals my car license plates and puts on somebody elses that are stolen. OK, I get the red lights, all 6 cop cars have their guns pointed at me, and they approach me and hand-cuff me and put me in the back of the cruiser. Within seconds, they COULD and SHOULD go right to the VIN numbers on the dashboard, and within seconds, they have ALL the pertinent info they need. Those VIN numbers cross reference the actual license plates on the vehicle. Then, they immediately find out that I'm the true registered owned of the car, and confiscate the stolen plates mounted on my car and un-cuff me and send me on my way hopefully with apologies to go with it.

Why they brought your neighbor in, is beyond me... And at Mr.O, back in the seventies things weren't as sophisticated as they are today with computers in every cop car. So, the cops probably were not able to instantly have the information they needed right at their finger tips like they have today... Again, DM, to me, there was NO excuse for pulling in your neighbor... Not with today's technology.

The VIN is a 17 character number made-up of both alpha and numeric characters. No two VIN's are the same.

All cars and light trucks built after 1981 have unique 17-character "vin numbers" that contains valuable information about that vehicle's history. These numbers are called vehicle identification numbers (VIN #).

Smart car buyers are recognizing that "VIN" Numbers or "vehicle identification numbers" can provide essential information to help them make better decisions about cars, old and new. VIN numbers are unique 17-digit serial numbers assigned to all cars manufactured after 1981. Just as fingerprints, a car's VIN or vehicle identification number can provide information a car buyer can use to confirm the true history of the car.

VIN numbers are used to record everything that will ever happen to a car. When ever your vehicle is sold, involved in an accident, or involved in an insurance claim, or recalled, bureaus such as CarFax record that information in data bases. VIN's display a car’s uniqueness and manufacturer and provides a method to trace a car from the factory to the junkyard. Your VIN number can be used to track recalls, registrations, warranty claims, thefts and insurance coverage.

Pulled over, held at gun point, hand cuffed, paraded around in public. Taken to the station for 2 hours before being released with no charges and no valid reason to have been put through that!

Put yourself in this guy’s shoes. What an awful experience. No little apology would make me feel better. I would want the reasons it happened and heads to roll if there was not a valid reason for this.

sreilly11:
As for the 5 officers at your neighbor’s house searching for someone I have seen this. I can understand if it is a felony fugitive but Antonovich has gone too far in allowing the County sheriff's to storm houses where a family kid is on probation. My neighbor had 5 or more in full swat gear show up at his house the day before Christmas, with his grandkids there, at 6:00am pounding on the door, with guns out doing a "probation check". It turned out his 16 year old kid was on probation for shoplifting. It woke us up and all the neighbors around on the street. Several cop cars. They found nothing and finally left. The little kids in the house were terrified. Merry Christmas.

Another example of over doing things. Use money to track the dangerous criminals not 16 year Old’s at their parents’ house. What a waste of our limited tax dollars.

I know there are many of you who think anything done to someone who broke the law is OK. Overcharge them, smack them around in jail, terrorize their family and neighbors. If you can't figure out why this was over kill then you are part of the problem.

This is why the court and Sheriffs don't need any more money and need more oversight.

Just to clarify something about how I feel about guns pointed at someone... First, EVERY single law abiding LEO has the RIGHT to defend him/herself. Every single LEO deserves to be able to come home to his/her family at the end of the day. I understand that nutjobs would love to shoot down a cop in a second. But, to me, possible stolen plates does NOT warrant guns pointed at the driver. Did the driver provoke a police chase where innocent people were in harms way ??? If so, point everything YOU have at the driver! But, how about the driver just driving normally going on about his business, while cops THINK they have a stolen car ahead of them ??? To me, pull the car over, talk over the loud speaker and instruct the driver to exit the car with hands in the air. Yes, the cops SHOULD have their hands on their pistol, but point the gun either in the air or on the ground. It only takes a HALF a SECOND to aim right at the suspect if need be.

Too many accidents can happen with pistols pointed at a driver. I thought that there was a policy out there about using guns within the police department. That is, use your gun ONLY when its a situation to "shoot to kill." So, where does this policy give the cops the "green light" to point guns at an innocent driver who just pulls away from Rite Aid after buying his entire family ice cream ??? His plates are displaying "stolen" in the cops surveillance cameras, so that justifies pointing guns at the entire family ???

Lovelife...don't you think if the plates were switched that the cops would naturally consider you a suspect because you purposely put the plates on your own vehicle? What I mean is, the cops can't just assume you are innocent and let you go driving off, because what if you are part of some weird elaborate scheme that needs some time to investigate / unravel? Then you'd be the first one screaming about why did the stupid cops just let someone go when they were pulled over for something suspicious to begin with? Suspects are treated like suspects until they are proven not to be suspects any longer, and that's they way it should be, for the safety of the cops and every single one of us in the community.

@chefgirl - "Don't you think if the plates were switched that the cops would naturally consider you a suspect because YOU purposely put the plates on YOUR OWN vehicle"

Sweetheart, I don't follow your point... Why would I deliberately put stolen plates on MY car ???

whataplace: I hear you! As for the people in our neighborhood, if it wasn't for the shotgun blast that brought us all out to see what was going on we would not have known about the incident. I remember looking at our neighbors and we all had the same look on our faces........then to be told, all this was over a RATTLESNAKE!!!!!

I use to work at Lockheed in Burbank. We had a parking lot that we used but had to cross a street, railroad tracks and another street to enter our plant. I watched one day a fellow employee jaywalk at the first street. One of Burbank's finest rolled up, and yelled for the guy to stop, unfortunately a train was going by and nothing could be heard. Many people were waiting to cross the tracks, I stayed on the other side of the street because after several commands to stop (again not heard) the officer pulled his gun. One employee actually tapped the jaywalker on the shoulder and pointed in the cops direction.....kinda of crazy when you think about pulling a gun in a crowd over a simple jaywalking infraction.

To further defend my point about cops pointing guns at a driver with stolen plates... Like I mentioned earlier, cops have computers in EVERY cop car. When they see a possible stolen car, they immediately run the license plates... In absolutely five seconds or less, they know the YEAR, MAKE, and MODEL of the car that is registered to that "stolen plate." It even tells them the name & address of the legitimate registered owner of that plate.

So, if the cops run the plate and read the computer and it says 1998 Ford Focus, and the ACTUAL car they just pulled over is a 2010 Mercedes Benz, I think that the LEO should have a clear picture that there is definitely a switched plate there. So, don't come out with guns pointed at the innocent Mercedes Benz's driver, because common sense tells you that there is a switched license plate.

There is a certain amount of "common sense" that every LEO has to use. Of course, ALWAYS be prepared for the un-thinkable. But, a totally mis-matched license plate on a Mercedes Benz ??? Come on you guys.... You're not using your heads today...

lovelife, A lot of criminals put stolen plates on their car, that's why there's a term called cold plated. They have to actually determine that you are you and not a suspect who's up to no good, and they should walk up to the car with their gun trained on you or any other time they do a felony traffic stop.

Nothing personal, but I think you're way off on your take on this.

@chefgirl- "A lot of criminals put stolen plates on their car"

I've never heard of that, and THAT proves there are a lot of STUPID people out there. I'd like the poster "tacalert" to comment on that... And, I'm going to talk to my nephew, the CHP, and several neighbors who are LAPD. Again, I've never heard of anybody doing that!

@chefgirl- "Nothing personal, but I think you're way off on your take on this"

That's funny.... I was thinking the same about YOU !!!

We are still assuming that this was a switched plate issue.
There is nothing to state that in the story so far.

@chefgirl - "A lot of criminals put stolen plates on their car, that's why there's a term called cold plated"

While just checking it on-line, I found that "cold plates" are intended for undercover police work, not civilian use. That would ring ALARM BELLS to the LEO who is in the process of pulling someone over... THAT, right there, seeing cold plates installed, would be reasons to point guns! But, not for a stolen Ford license plate mounted on a Mercedes Benz...

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it. Until someone, like my nephew, LAPD neighbors, or someone here can clear that up for me...

@lovelife "So, don't come out with guns pointed at the innocent Mercedes Benz's driver, because common sense tells you that there is a switched license plate." - the Signal ran a story earlier this week about a guy called Michael Lyadda who was just found guilt of defrauding the IRS of $344K back in 2005. I think its the same Ugandan guy who got busted in Valencia last year with 700 Oxycodone tablets worth $10K. I think he had a couple of cars worth $200K that they confiscated, including a nice looking AMG Merc. So given that criminals can own nice cars, I don't buy the "don't draw your gun and assume that the person in the Geo Metro put their plates on the Merc" argument.

@LosRubioss - "I don't buy the person in the Geo Metro put their plates on the Merc" argument'

Good, I don't buy it either... In my opinion, the criminal is not going to mount STOLEN license plates on HIS car. That raises flags. He will want to mount plates that are clean he avoids detection as long as possible. Relate that to a bank robber who walks in front of the bank while wearing a hat "I'm going to rob you today Citibank".... So, for that same reason nobody would deliberately put STOLEN plates on the same Mercedes that HE's driving around town... That's just asking to be pulled over... Most people don't even look at their own license plates - let alone know that someone put their plates on YOUR car while parked next to you at the grocery store, for example. That analogy matches what DMeyer just said about his neighbor not knowing that his own vehicle's plates were switched...

Cold plated refers to a vin or license plate that is stolen and placed on a vehicle, but the plates have not yet been reported as stolen to the police so they don't know that they're stolen yet. When they are "hot" as opposed to "cold", they have been reported stolen, as in, it's a "hot" car, or that stereo is hot, etc., means that it is known stolen property.

@LosRubioss -

Besides, DMeyers' example was the SAME type of vehicle's plates were SWAPPED with the SAME model... That's what prompted police to pull that neighbor over. It is possible that the police noticed a Range Rover, then ran the plates, found out that they matched the description of ANOTHER Range Rover with stolen car/plates, and that's what prompted guns pointed at the driver.

@chefgirl - "Cold plated refers to a vin or license plate that is stolen and placed on a vehicle, but the plates have not yet been reported as stolen to the police so they don't know that they're stolen yet"

What you are saying COULD BE true... Here's an example of my point...

It was common practice for Bell Gardens city managers to have their vehicles equipped with so-called "cold" license plates, which the California Vehicle Code says can be requested by a police chief or district attorney for city employees who are engaged in "investigating actual or suspected violations of the law."


http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-03/news/ci-41740_1_city-manager

Cold plates in the instance you are referring to, is different. It means that if some criminal had an inside source, say at the DMV or AAA or something - or even someone who worked for law enforcement, and they ran the plate for the criminal of a vehicle that was being used for undercover work, the plate would come back to a normal name, address etc, like John Doe, 1234 Maple Street, type of thing that was being used for the identity of the cop, in other words, it would NOT come back as a law enforcement vehicle, would not be registered to the police agency, etc. It's sort of a different definition of cold plating.

@chefgirl - "A lot of criminals put stolen plates on their car"

Here's my conclusion: The examples that you were using, just didn't make sense to me. I didn't understand what valid reasons a criminal would put STOLEN plates on his own car. Yes, he would put stolen "cold plates" like you said to deter the cops. I was trying to figure out why a criminal would put license plates that are KNOWN stolen (from a vehicle that has been reported STOLEN), and then, put those plates on HIS car... So, when you said "A lot of criminals put stolen plates on their car" I didn't get the point you were bringing up. Yes, of course, criminals WOULD put "clean or cold" plates on their car that they just removed from a nearby parked car. But, not stolen plates from a stolen car!

Sorry for the confusion... I'm sure that the readers are glad that THIS dumbie just figured out what the heck you were talking about! Goes to show you, after two nights of not sleeping because I popped my back, I should not be involved in a forum the next day! So, I'm the one here who is NOT using my head today because I'm not thinking CLEARLY...

But, I will still stand by my statement that once the cops stopped DMeyer's neighbor, they should have checked the VIN and within seconds, they would have realized it was a "swapped plate" issue. Therefore, there was NO valid reason for bringing him in...

But you don't know what else happened that made them bring him in. That's the problem with news stories, especially in this paper, you're only getting a teensy bit of information. Maybe he didn't have I.d. on him, maybe he was a total jackass, maybe there were other reasons why they brought him in, and I'd bet there was too, in any case, we'll probably never know.

@lovelife
I don't understand why you are not a cop, you seem t know so much more about their job than they do. You should join the department and show them how it's really done.

I guess I could Monday morning quarter back the dentist who didn't quite do the best filling for me two years ago, or the mechanic who couldn't stop the intermittent rattle sound under my car, or the florist who used too much babies breath on the last bouqet of flowers i bought.....but does that make me an expert at their job? How dare they not be absolutely perfect everyday.

By the way lovelife, what is your profession?

Still don't see an update stating that this was a case of switched plates. I guess if we see that it is then MAYBE there is an argument to be made. Otherwise we are left with as the Sheriffs spokesmen said “They suspect it’s a stolen car,” he said. “We’re still trying to figure that out.”
Figure out why an innocent person was put through a very dangerous, embarrassing situation. Keep the focus on this until we know that anything about switched plates is involved.

Where is the follow up? They should know what happened about the same time they let the guy go. If it was something that covered the Sheriffs butts we should have heard it by now. Maybe it needs to go through the spin cycle a couple times before we get it.

If this had happened to me, they would have been picking me up off the ground. After freaking out with so many pulling me over, then the guns being drawn.........my knees would have just plain buckled. Wonder if my involuntary moment would have given them cause to shoot?!?!

@DMeyer - " lovelife, what is your profession?"

Well, I'll give you my profession in Morse Code...

I'm .......... ....... ......................

Now you know!

Any other questions ???

@sreilly - "Wonder if my involuntary moment would have given them cause to shoot?!?!"

EXACTLY !!! That's the point with guns drawn right at the driver !!! Gee, make ONE wrong move accidently, and they'll ALL demonstrate their target shooting skills !!!

Well thankfully lovelife, this guy isn't the wimp I would have been....lol. Sure hope the next person(s) reacts like him also....this will happen again and again.....even after some innocent person gets killed, mark my words!!!!

Add this to the list of the 2 older women whose truck was shot up by the cops
while. And the other guy whose truck was shot up too.

Since Dorner is not around what will they blame it on?

@sreilly - "This will happen again and again.....even after some innocent person gets killed, mark my words!!!!"

You are absolutely 100% correct! There is NO DOUBT in my mind that some innocent person WILL get killed in the future.

@whataplace - "Add this to the list of the 2 older women whose truck was shot up by the cops"

EXACTLY - We three posters and some others here ARE all on the same page with our thoughts!

I still stand by my earlier statement... When it's a possible car theft, give someone the red lights. When vehicle pulls over, have guns-in-hand, but aim straight up in the air - get on the loud speaker and request the driver to get out with his hands up, and lay down on the floor. No guns should EVER be pointed at a possible innocent person...

If driver resists and/or is rebellious and WILL NOT co-operate, then that signals "potential danger" and the LEOs should THEN point their guns at HIM, but NOT until...

That's just the right thing to do... Plain and simple...

@whataplace

Yes, please translate your morse code answer into English. Unless of course you have something to hide.

@DM -

Suggestion: Get some stronger glasses!

The SCV Sheriff Dept shows once again that so many of their deputies are no different than the criminals that they're supposed to be protecting us from. I say this from experience as I went through a similiar situation back in 2011.

I was pulled over for a minor traffic stop (the deputy said I didn't stop LONG ENOUGH at a stop sign) and after giving the deputy my license he asked me to step out so he could search me and my vehicle. I politely informed the deputy that I don't submit to searches without a warrant. The deputy didn't say anything further and returned to his car. The next thing I know is I'm surround by six sheriffs cars (and eight deputies) all with their guns drawn and pointing at me. I was ordered out of my vehicle and told to lay down on the ground. I was then cuffed, searched and thrown into the back of a squad car where I had to wait until their sargent arrived (about a half hour later) and then I was uncuffed and released...without any explanation and without a traffic ticket (I think the sargent saw what was happening to me and decided to put a stop to it). But while I was in the back of the squad car before the sargent arrived I overheard these thugs (the deputies) talking to each other about beating people, planting evidence on suspects, and various other crimes that they routinely commit.

So I'm not saying that they're all bad apples (I'm thankful that the sargent did what he did), but way too many law enforcement officers do behave no different than gangbangers.

Thanks lovelife.

I have a couple of suggestions for you too......:-)

boneshark: I don't doubt your story at all and I applaud you for standing up for your rights. A lot of these officers think they can ignore the rules and do as they please. When a Sergeant is called out, procedure is then followed and everyone seems to calm down.

@boneshark

That's terrible. What was the result of the internal affairs investigation? After what happened to you i'm sure you filed a formal complaint, I know I would and so would any other upstanding citizen. Luckily for us traffic stops by police nowadays are recorded both visually and audio. The deputies captured on tape discussing beatings, planting evidence as well as other crimes they commit are surely no longer with the sheriff department and most likely in jail.

Lovelife, "no guns should ever be pointed at an innocent person" is a ridiculous statement. You think cops are psychic? Everyone is a suspect until proven otherwise, that's how everyone stays safe. Cops don't and shouldn't point their guns "in the air"! Apparently, you don't own firearms either? Because that is NOT gun safety 101.

@chefgirl - "Cops don't and shouldn't point their guns "in the air"! Because that is NOT gun safety 101"

Oh wow, where do I begin...??? First, I do own firearms, and yes I am a marksman along with certified safety training. Your tax dollars paid for my military training. Second, pointing guns in the air is ONE of the FIRST things you are taught - MAINLY for the safety of others around you - like other LEOs... You ONLY lower your weapon when you are ready for your target.

@chefgirl - "no guns should ever be pointed at an innocent person" IS A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT"

Really ??? chefgirl, you are SO VERY WRONG... Being that you brought up gun safety 101, here's a quote for ya: "Never point a firearm at anything unless you intend to destroy it. Point the muzzle away from non-targets. This rule is intended to minimize the damage caused by an unintended discharge. The first rule teaches that a firearm must be assumed to be ready to fire. This rule goes beyond that and says, "Since the firearm might fire, assume that it will and make sure no harm occurs when it does."

Again - "Never point a firearm at anything unless you intend to destroy it."

@chefgirl -

What gun safety 101 certification class would tell you otherwise ???Apparently, we ALL know what LEO dept policy is about while pointing 6 loaded guns at a driver. But, I'm talking about the SAFETY of the driver who's looking down the barrels that are aimed right at him...

Who is telling you this ???

@chefgirl -

Let's talk about accidents now... See what message I'm trying to display ??? I'm just waiting for this to happen to our local department. It's a just a matter of time... A police officer on duty was shot by another officer... This story is only 3 days old...

Baldwin police Sgt. Ralph Miller was shot by another officer while responding to a 911 call.

All I'm saying chefgirl, is that ACCIDENTS HAPPEN - yep, even to one of their own... Bet this would NOT have happened if the officer held his gun in the air upright until he needed to use it.


Read more: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/Woman-who-called-911-talks-about-day-Baldwin-officer-accidentally-shot-sergeant/-/10927008/18487290/-/2viu5tz/-/index.html#ixzz2N12zGx8P