Cue Journey. "Don't stop, believin....."

So this roundabout is the city finally admitting to thier traffic engineering mistake. Traffic souldve never been routed the way it is to begin with. How about a pedestrian bridge?

How about spending the money to fix sidewalks instead of doing it L.A. City style of putting asphalt where the concrete is rising?

A virtual gold mine for the auto body repair shops around here. Think Coney Island bumper cars.

I would like to know how the City folks justify their complete and utter arrogance in this matter - how they think they know better than any other municipality in this country that's paid millions of dollars to have these circles REMOVED in order to improve traffic flow. There's no point whatsoever in attending this meeting. They will never listen to anyone outside their "gang".

The San Francisco Bridge is an iconic gateway. I hardly think the Newhall Roundabout Project in the league of "iconic". Did someone at the city learn a new 3-syllable word? And what will this "iconic" art piece be? I can hardly wait. As for wanting to walk around in this area, no thank you. I don't feel like getting shanked this year.

I phoned the city to complain about this stupid idea and this meeting they're having, is a total kangaroo court, their decision was made on this long ago, just like that horrible library and various other debacles they have had in recent years. When I called them, of course, all I got was a bunch of bs answers about how everyone else in the community just loves the idea. BULL CRAP!

Also, to the posters above... have any of you seen the "iconic" artwork they paid like $60K for on Bouquet Canyon rd? It is a hideous eyesore, but more importantly, it's going to impale someone to death in a collision. It is dangerous and butt ugly.

When SCV's city leaders really put their minds to it, they sure do come up with some pretty huge snafu's.

The iconic artwork will be a life-sized statue of Laurie Ender sitting crouched with her head in her hands.

Calling the roundabout an iconic gateway is like an 85 year old Grandma wearing tight yoga pants with Juicy on the back... still not going to be desirable.

Or Frank Ferry wearing "Juicy" shorts..... Waaaaaahhh.......

There are some safety issues when building a roundabout near an at-grade railroad crossing. Cars approaching a roundabout may get caught on the railroad tracks and cars stopped at the railroad tracks may back traffic into the roundabout.

When there is a freeway closure in the Newhall Pass the traffic on Railroad Ave, Newhall Ave and Main Street moves at a snails pace.

I agree with all of you. Ohhyaa - we ate at Way Station over the weekend, and I made it a point to watch the foot traffic outside. Lots of folks with their own personal shopping carts, some filled with children, others with recyclables. A group of people (all wearing pajamas at 12:30 pm)stopped outside the restaurant. One of them came in to use the restroom, while the others enjoyed jumping on and off the benches. One young mother took the time to stop to yell profanities at her young daughter. Another couple of "fine gentlemen" strolled past and fortunately for the restaurant patrons they kept walking. Another beautiful day in downtown Newhall.

Just more lipstick on the pig

NotSoAwesomeTown: Wow.......sounds like the only thing missing was some "dipper changing" going on in front of the windows for the patrons viewing pleasure!!! There are two restaurants that we eat from in New Hall.......I make my hubby drive over and pick up our food.

Bdeezine and ohhyaa...I was practically in tears I was laughing so hard at your comments...nice!

What I don't understand is WHY the city leaders are hellbent on their wildly impossible vision of downtown Newhall? WHY would anyone think it will ever be a nice area, and why would anyone even want to waste money trying? We have beautiful areas all throughout the city, and downtown Newhall, will NEVER be one of them. How can EVERYONE with a brain know that except for this tiny group of people? Is there something crooked to this? Are they trying to get some sort of funding or will they qualify for some kind of funding due to their projects in Newhall or what? I just don't get it.

This is like saying that Compton would be a great place for a state of the art performing arts center, community center, traffic projects (that are nonsensical), expensive artwork (I'm not holding my breath on the "iconic" part), and a great place for a family outing to go walking on the streets. It's like saying you want to walk through Baghdad without a flak jacket, okay, maybe not quite that extreme, but it's certainly not what they're making it out to be either.

plain and simple.... STUPID idea, and COMPLETE waste of money...

Greeeeat..you think they'll make us go through it with our cars in reverse?

chefgirl & notsoawsometown: Both of you hit the nail on the head. When will the city council stop the spending in this "boondoggle" I drive through this area on occasion ond I am stumped as to why anybody would want to spend an afternoon over there. I am beginning to believe there is something crooked going on also.

Someone once posted that many of the city council members are developers and/or land owners in the area, and it benefits them directly to improve the area (e.g. I forget who owns the area of land where they plan to extend Lyons Ave., but that's been spoken about as well on these boards.) The time to develop Newhall was 20 years ago, but that ship has sailed. We now have Town Center and the cookie-cutter development that surrounds it.

Whether you like it or not,
it will be built by the city.
Before it is built, please answer these questions as to the need for this.

1. Is it being built as an iconic focal point, so people can see the $30 Million taj mahal?
2. How much car traffic on Newhall Ave actually goes to/from main street?
3. How many developers are in the area that are members of the city council,
or paying for their relection?
4. What are the next plans for the area?
5. Where will the next $25 Million of taxpayer money go in Newhall?
6. Who at city hall approved the villa metro housing tract next to land that is part of a toxic waste site?
7. Will there be multistory residential/industrial communities springing up in newhall to take advantage of all the taxpayer generated ammenities?
8. Who will benefit from this project?
9. Could the money be used to alleviate traffic issues at other parts of the city?
10. Whose idea was this?
11. The final question, if 200 people attend this meeting and voice their disapproval, does the city still go ahead with their plans?

Whether you like it or not.

I think this might be a good idea. At the moment I have to come to a full stop at this junction. With a roundabout, there's a chance I can keep rolling if there's nothing coming for me to yield to and therefore avoid the possibility that the wheels on my truck will be stolen while I wait for the lights to change.

The roundabout will certainly serve as the perfect place to post a plethora of campaign re-election signs. Well worth the money just for that reason. Maybe could also be used to display large informative signs like 30% chance of rain today. Wouldn't that be great for the Newhall community.

A better and cheaper solution would be to straighten out newhall avenue. get rid of the bend and the light. Turn main street into a one way north only, accessible from newhall ave and west bound 5th street, so as people drive into town via newhall ave they can get on main street and see the taj mahal.

if people want to get to main street from east or north, go east on lyons to railroad south, then right on 5th. I doubt there will be that much traffic from newhall ave going north on main street.

LosRubios - while I sympathize with your worry about the wheels on your truck being stolen while you wait for that light, I can assure you this is NOT a good idea. People are idiots. They already don't know how to drive in this valley, so let's through a circle into the mix. Hell, while we're at it, let's just relocate the Saugus Speedway to the roundabout and sell tickets for the demolition derby that's about to ensue!

Lars: "...so as people drive into town via newhall ave they can get on main street and see the taj mahal."

That's the hardest I laughed all day, thanks.

There is no traffic issue at this intersection today. There are rarely any cars exiting Main Street and even fewer coming off of 5th Street. This roundabout is all about one thing, getting people to slow down and see Main Street.

The city will never admit defeat on this. Perhaps in 20 years, once the Marsha McLeans and Laurene Westes are gone, then the city can finally say what a failure this experiment has been. The people and planners behind this will be long gone.

They city has spent over $100 million tax dollars to make this into an arts and entertainment district. They are set to spend millions more. If people really wanted this, why hasn't private industry come in and created this? That's because there is no demand for this as is evidenced by failures of non-Hispanic businesses in Old Town (most recently Newhall Bike Shop and most notably Newhall Hardware). Existing businesses survive by catering to niches in the marketplace and are helped along by the super cheap rents in the area (about 1/10 what it costs to open a shop at the mall).

The fact is that people are not drawn to this area and it is viewed as a bad area of town. All the re-paved streets in the world are not going to draw people in. The city will not realize this, it's not their money they are spending.

I suggest a statue of Frank Ferry be installed in the roundabout, he should be riding a skateboard with a backwards hat on in his classic mayordude pose. This should serve as a reminder to all in this city what happens when we do not pay attention to local politics and simply vote incumbent. There would be no better person to represent this than him.

Straightening out Newhall Avenue is the most obvious thing that should be done to this intersection. It's where 99% of traffic is going. But again, this is not about doing what is right.

I don't care if they put a roundabout in or not, but I honestly don't see the need for one there. The light is almost always green and I don't ever see traffic backed up there. Seems like the money should be spent somewhere else where it could actually have a positive impact.

I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't have to pay for the roundabout AND pay for its eradication when we finally admit it is a disaster.

Look, our town has a roundabout. It's the reason my wife never goes to the Castaic library. Fortunately, she can still use the Newhall library and avoid this roundabout.

I understand that other cultures have roundabouts without problem. But it's also true that other cultures enslave their women and execute gays and Christians. Doesn't make it right for America.

Rocketeer, I don't go to Castaic often, but I have driven the roundabout I believe twice. I feel that the biggest problem was people never saw a roundabout before and didn't know how to navigate it. I haven't been over there for a couple of years - I'm hoping drivers are more accustomed to it (but you obviously have to watch out for newbies).

Why doesn't your wife like it? For the reasons I said above?

There is a speculator vision for downtown Newhall that will not be deflected by something as weak as taxpayers' wishes.

Just like stupid California Mentality, we keep voting these idiots back in. Like we keep voting Boxer and Feinstein back in.
Oh yea, good one oldman.

Maybe they could use the money to pave Rye Canyon on both sides of the 5 and maybe kick some money to the county to pave the Old Road from Rye Canyon to the freeway entrance.

I have lived out here for almost 15 years, and that road has never been resurfaced.

The roundabout is stupid. The only reason I go through Newhall is to get to the 14 if I am not going to the 5 off of Rye Canyon. The only place I shop in OldTown Newhall is... Oh wait, I don't shop there.

The Council is trying again and again to build a monument to itself with taxpayer money, from a poor imitation of Old Pasadena to a hideous monstrosity of a library that doesn't remotely fit the area's architecture. Monumental fail.

I agree with most of the above. Another ridiculous roundabout? In downtown Newhall? If Hit and Run collisions weren't already on the rise, just one more thing to consider with this bad idea. More of our TAX dollars at work.

BBennetts, I totally agree. However, instead of 20 years, the grandmothers will be gone in the next election.
The library fiasco made people wake up to the way the city is spending our money irresponsibly. The expensive arts movement is another joke.

Meanwhile, a survey in the signal stated the major issue in santa clarita is traffic (85%).
There were many traffic problems with benz road, because the city never finished copper hill at bouquet. There is a stupid sign there that the road will be extended in the future. That has been there for over 10 years.

Please vote at the next election.
Please send the message to those seeking your vote. If you dont listen to the citizens needs and do what you want, you will have to look for a new job.
Whether you (council members) like it or not.

bwwwwwwwwwwwwwahahahaahahaaaaa those of us IN Castaic/Val Verde laugh at you! Now, us locals (mostly) have gotten very used to maneuvering through the Round-About, but BOY IS IT OBVIOUS when it's not someone from "around here" in the car in front of you! All we wanted was a left hand turn arrow from East Bound "Hasley Cyn" to North Bound "The Old Road" - thats ALL we ever asked for... WE got a Round-About, after two years or so of construction mind you. - Good Luck! we'll be watching (and maybe snickering)

Nobody ever has reason to go to Old Town Newhall? Interesting that nobody cares to visit the Veterans Historic Plaza.

I'll be the round about

The words will make you out 'n' out

I'll spend the day your way.....

Call it morning drive thru the sound and

In and out the Valley.....


It's so clear to me now. How the inspiration for the roundabout was conceived. We have some Yes fans on our City Council.

How long until the city council proposes a high-speed rail from the mall to Old Town?

Crap...I hope I didn't just give them the idea.

Johnny Cash: They are going to need some sort of high speed transportation
to get from one end of the city to the other. It took me almost and hour to complete that task over the weekend. The valley is looking better and better
to me. At least they somewhat of a working infrastructure. And hey! No roundabouts out there!

Sam2222,it's sad, but quite honestly if they really wanted to honor veterans, they should have put that monument somewhere more visible and populated. It's not that nobody cares, it's that the plaza is in a crappy part of town in which nobody feels safe. That is never going to change. City Council's "if we build it they will come" attitude has GOT to stop. It's costing the city money and infuriating residents.

Sounds like that silly bach-in parking they tried a few years ago in Old Town Newhall. How much money was lost in order to redo that mess the council
approved.

@cms96 good point. I actually forgot about the back in parking fiasco, which I'm sure the city is hoping we all will do. Thanks for remembering. Sounds like Willy and Nilly are running amuck in the city.

@Sam2222 I have lived in Santa Clarita for 20+ years and didn't know about the Veteran's Historic Plaza, so shame on me. I will make it a point to visit and have already looked at the site map on the city website. I have to say though, I will probably only go once and will reserve future Veteran's Day trips to the L.A. National Cemetary in Westwood. Thanks for the info.

Sam2222, notsoawesometown is right, I LOVE the Veterans Plaza, but had I not LIVED IN Newhall when it went in, I'm sure I wouldn't know about it either. It should have a more prominent more visable location. I am PROUD of ALL out Veterans and the little park is beautiful, it's a shame it's wasted where it is.

I traverse the roundabout daily in Castaic and I estimate I'm nearly hit by another vehicle blowing right through the yield signs at least twice per week. From my experience, that's how bad it really is.
Regarding the comment from tacalert on the Old Road at Rye Canyon, you're spot on in your observations about the road. And, have you seen what they're doing now? Instead of fixing the road, they're putting in a center isle, apparently for "beautification" and paving the turnouts on the side of the Old Road that cars and trucks occasionally park in at noon time. The Old Road itself is just as bad as it's alweays been and belongs in a third world country.

I am a Vietnam veteran and have wanted to visit the Veterans Plaza. I have never seen any place to park other than Hart Park which is too much of a walk with my limited mobility.

Why are they doing this stupid thing....everyone is against it except
Article 21 supporters.

I hear roundabouts are very common in Hispanic in other Countries. Im thnking it sort of makes the residences around there feel more at home.

If this project succeeds I am moving to Europe!

cms96: They should really just work on improving Railroad Avenue. All the through traffic got funneled onto this street. Buses stop near Metrolink and block the #2 lane in each direction. 18 wheelers? Forget about it. I am really surprised they have not put a median in here also.

Castaic Jack: I didn't realize that is what they are doing on the Old Road. I drive through there at 4 in the morning so I really don't know what they are doing. Another waste of money. I am sure thousands were asking for that.

If the 5 freeway is closed (and ive seen it happen) Newhall Avenue is the only corridor to get to the 14 freeway. Unless you want to go all the way around to Soledad. I have seen traffic backed up all the way pass Lyons Ave.
This is an obstacle and will most certainly impede that flow of traffic rather than help it. And believe me, its really bad now.

I'm surprised the roundabout doesn't force cars directly into the Newhall library parking lot. Then they can have an automated gate that charges you to leave the lot. We can use that revenue to repaint the new library and perhaps add a gift shop.

Just one more reason to avoid that part of town now.... what a great idea.

Bdeezine: Is this the cities way of showing an influx of visitors to Downtown Newhall? To justify more spending?

LMBO@Bdeezine!!! "I'm surprised the roundabout doesn't force cars directly into the Newhall library parking lot"

@ Rocketeer... your wife can get to the Castaic Library without going through the Round-about, I assume you are in LiveOak, Hasley Cyn or Val Verde... - You just go behind Ralph's here's how:
Take Hasley Canyon Rd to Cambridge Ave

Take the 1st right onto Creekbed Rd

Turn right onto Firebrand Dr

Take the 1st right onto Sedona Way

Take the 1st left onto The Old Rd

Turn left onto Sloan Canyon Rd
Destination will be on the right

Castaic Library
27971 Sloan Canyon Rd
Castaic, CA 91384

@Bdeezine, The cities way of showing influx into Downtown Newhall to justify more spending...

Wow, you are so smart. That though never occurred to me, but I think you hit the nail on the head.

tacalert: I'm glad you brought up Railroad Ave and the issues there. The turnouts they created for the buses aren't nearly wide enough, resulting in the buses blocking traffic EVERY SINGLE DAY. Not only that, but those bus drivers simply cut right into traffic regardless of the cars that might be along side them. If I ever get hit I'm going to get the best lawyer in SoCal to make a case against the City for not properly developing that street. They should DEFINITELY scrap this ridiculous roundabout and use the money to FIX Railroad Avenue.

So we're up to over 58 comments in this section. WHY HAS NOT ONE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER BOTHERED TO ADDRESS THESE VALID POINTS??? You know darn right well if any of these issues are brought up at their March 14th meeting, they'll be glossed over and redirected.

Another story where the comments are way better than the original story.

The city should finish what they started on Newhall avenue. Why not finish
constructing a sidewalk on the other side of the street.

Personally, I wish the Way Station would relocate closer to Saugus. It's seriously the only reason we go to Newhall at this point. Ok, that and Taco Llama has some pretty good food. But that's it.

HAHAHA The City Employees dont subscribe to The Signal!!! ;)

Dont forget the Egg Plantation! Shout out for Simon & Shannon ♥

The City probably doesnt listen because its the same 5-6 people who comment on every single Signal article saying every single project is the stupidest idea ever. You lose credibility when spew misinformation and nonsense.

@LStaedtler, my unscientific count was 24 different posters stating dissatisfaction. With the total post count at 65 comments, the percentage of SCV citizens against the roundabout is 36%. So based on these numbers and the required 2/3 to pass, building the roundabout shouldn't happen. So much for your theory of 5-6 people having no credibility.

Apparently it is far easier to attack the critics and state there is "misinformation and nonsense" being spread than it is to attack the misinformation and nonsense.

Actually ohhyaa, I see zero comments above that support this idea.

@BBennetts, you are correct on both accounts. I was being generous in calculating 41 of the 65 posts as being for the roundabout even though clearly they were not. Unfortunately for LStaedtler's cause, it only demonstrated how ill informed he/she is. Maybe we should let LStaedtler in on a secret. The city isn't listening to any of us because they don't have to. It's a game of musical chairs and when the music stops or slows they all just trade positions. Too bad she doesn't see that.

I'm sorry for even making a comment. It is not worth my energy to convince closed-minded people. The internet is a good source of finding studies done on roundabouts and the advantages and disadvantages of them.

I like the idea of roundabouts. They make sense. But does it make sense at *this* intersection?

Personally I do not feel that a "round about" is needed across from Hart Park area. There is way too much traffic, drivers think and use as a speedway just to see how fast they can maneuver through it like the one in Castaic you really have to fight through it. Main street will be the biggest looser. Just remember the confusion when we had back in parking?

BBennetts..........Its not that we are misinformed. This issue is common sense! Anybody with have a brain knows that this will not work. I do not need so called studies to figure this one out!....

A grade separation with the railroad tracks makes way more sense. Who U-turns from Newhall Avenue onto "Main" Street? Why not just cut up 6th? Does someone on City Council have a cousin in the Roundabout business?

@tacalert- I found this: http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/call_projects/images/2009_Call-for-Projects.pdf. Go to the second to last page.

So it looks like the City got a grant to build the roundabout. Probably means that the money they receive can only go to this project and not others. I agree with you that there are definitely other pressing projects but it looks like the City is tied to this project because of the funds.

@LStaedtler. just for the record, you made no attempt to convince the 5-6 "close minded" posters that their opinions of the roundabout were inaccurate, off base, misguided.... You never gave an example why a roundabout at this location was a good idea even though in your second post you seen to be aware of Internet sites that talk about their advantages. No, you merely stated that "we spew misinformation and nonsense".

So go ahead and stop posting if you can't stomach a little bit of feedback. Speaking for myself I have been challenged many times on my comments. If your facts are straight and sharing your opinion is important to you then take a stand. Cheezzz.

Growing up having to deal with traffic circles and roundabouts back East, I can say from first hand experience they're not a good idea for main roads or areas that experience even moderate traffic. The only circles that were "successful" were in quiet residential neighborhoods, the centers of which were used for beautification projects. Major roundabouts at crucial intersections were phased out in the last 20 years, at a substantial cost to taxpayers in both time and the aggravation of having to deal with over a year of slower travel through construction zones. Now, back there we all grew up driving those circles, yet STILL people could not navigate them even though they drove around them daily. Circular intersections are counter intuitive, and drivers out here will be even less able to negotiate them.

But what do I know. Clearly the folks at the City are a brain trust.

The fact is that the city is going to build this even if people protest en masse. It all has to do with old town and when it comes to that, nothing will stand in their way. They did it with the back in parking. They did it with the library. They did it with the landscape maintenance district for the area. The city will do everything in their power to move forward, flying in the face of logic and opposition.

I have lived in SCV for 13 years and I have never seen so many bonehead moves by a city council. I do believe they all have something at stake in thier decision making. Whether they be land owners or developers or Realtors ect.
This city is overcrowded. This roundabout should been put in 15 years ago,
not now. I am glad I am moving out of this city this summer!

cms96, take me with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know people who've lived here since the 60's and are equally as disgusted, so it's not just us newer folk who are taking notice ("newer" for me is 15 years). It's a shame our opinions and (apparently) votes are in the minority.

LStaedtler:
What is it that we said is close minded. You obviusly expended energy to write your post, so keep it up. Don't back out.

BBennetts...I agree wholheartedly with your last post. The city is going to do this no matter what the opposition in the hopes that people will actually venture into their warped version of Oz aka the Emerald City. But I am curious, what did you mean about LMD?

But, hey, what a great place to put a DUI/license/registration/equipment violation checkpoint... right on the roundabout. All we need is Alan Funt.

I think they forced Newhall businesses into an LMD to pay for the landscaping and "enhancements" along the fence next to the railroad tracks. This stuff isn't free.

tacalert. You are correct about the newly tacked on fee for the landscaping on Newhall Ave. (I also like to call it Railroad). The fee was added to residents in the 91350 zip code (saugus), in the Beazer development down toward the end of OakRidge Ave (spelling?. I heard an extra grand per year on top of what they were paying. You know, this city really has no regard for it's citizens.

and people STILL want to annex in... the fools. I'll Stay "County" thank you very much

I urge this city to nix this plan. The council who approves this will be the laughing stock!