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Religious freedoms are a human right

Posted: August 12, 2014 2:00 a.m.
Updated: August 12, 2014 2:00 a.m.
 

President Obama has finally responded to the violence and persecution against Christians and other religious minorities by the barbaric militant group Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

The president has ordered airlifts of humanitarian aid to more than 40,000 Iraqi religious refugees, said to be trapped in the mountains of Iraq and Kurdistan, and potential air strikes to protect them and U.S. personnel still in Iraq.

Another 100,000 displaced Christians are said to be fleeing elsewhere on foot.

Religious leaders in the U.S. have signed a “Pledge of Solidarity and Call to Action” on behalf of Christians and other religious minorities in Egypt, Iraq and Syria.

The pledge, spurred by Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Virginia, and Rep. Anna G. Eshoo, D-California, highlights their concerns: “Now facing an existential threat to their presence in the lands where Christianity has its roots, the churches in the Middle

East fear they have been largely ignored by their co-religionists in the West. ...

“American religious leaders need to pray and speak with greater urgency about this human rights crisis.”

Christians need to pray for persecuted believers, here and around the world.

We must also urge the Obama administration to actively advocate to the international community the principles of religious freedom as a human right, as declared in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

 

Comments

Jackk: Posted: August 12, 2014 8:27 a.m.

Religious freedom is well and good until one group seeks to impose their brand of belief onto others.

While I can see the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, at home I see a bunch of whining about so called wars on Christmas and the like.

May I suggest those who cry about perceived slights to shut up and feel shame because there are others who really are putting their lives on the line for their beliefs.

I highly doubt they are prostyletizing and trying to advance their agenda through the courts onto others.

If they were like many American Christians, I would let them live on the mountain, because what they are practicing is not the Jesus based version of living life and getting along with others. They are attempting to legislate their morality which others do not share.

But who am I to judge? I am not a Christian but a Golden Rule person.


ricketzz: Posted: August 12, 2014 10:04 a.m.

Religion is one of the bad things about "civilization". It is a means of societal control devised by circus magicians and mushroom witch doctors. People are free to believe anything they want but when they involve outsiders they have gone too far.

"Pray in the closet" -Jesus H. Christ


17trillion: Posted: August 12, 2014 12:07 p.m.

"While I can see the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, at home I see a bunch of whining about so called wars on Christmas and the like."

The utter idiocy of comparing people getting their heads chopped off with complaining about wars on Christmas is on full display. What is wrong with you Jack to say something so utterly moronic?

People are getting their heads chopped off. Women in children are being raped and tossed into pits and set on fire. 9 year olds are proudly holding severed heads on Facebook and you.......you complain about people complaining about a war on Christmas? You're disgusting! Oh yea, I can see Christians having issues in the Middle East, but what about what happened on the Bachelor last night?


chefgirl358: Posted: August 12, 2014 12:23 p.m.

17, thank you for your comments, I agree totally.


17trillion: Posted: August 12, 2014 12:41 p.m.

There may not be an all out war against Christians in this country but there is a degree of utter contempt that I find disgusting. People making some hair brained moral equivalency between Christians and Muslims is without a doubt the most repugnant thing I've ever seen or heard. There is absolutely no equivalence between these two peoples. One is, for the most part, good and a doer of good things in this country and the world. The other is evil, vile, and disgusting. Yea, yea, I know, all Muslims aren't terrorists. I get it, but until they start policing the actions of their fellow Muslims, they are all complicit in my opinion. If the radicals and terrorists are such a small minority of Muslims, yea right, then why are they not eradicated?

Signed,

An athiest


stevehw: Posted: August 12, 2014 9:18 p.m.

" If the radicals and terrorists are such a small minority of Muslims, yea right, then why are they not eradicated?"

Maybe for the same reason Christians haven't been able to eradicate pockets of bigotry and hatred within *their* religion?


ricketzz: Posted: August 13, 2014 9:31 a.m.

Like the post from the Ferguson Police Chief's wife. Racism is institutional and systemic and rooted in Old Time Religion.


17trillion: Posted: August 13, 2014 11:29 a.m.

Christians displaying bigotry and hatred doesn't cause me any concern that I might lose my head. Speaking of bigotry and hatred Steve, how do you think life is as a homosexual in Iran? I read they hung a couple of them the other day. How about life as a 8 year girl under Taliban rule in Afghanistan?

"Oh, those Christians are so hateful...waaaaaa....and the Muslims are so peaceful and tranquil and lets embrace them and be nice to them and hopefully they wont cut my head off even though they execute homosexuals, behead children, rape and/or marry 9 year olds, and....well, those things aren't as important as Christians with their bigotry".

People like you Steve who compare alleged Christian bigotry with actual Muslim atrocities make me sick. Worse, you don't have the guts to even make the actual comparison, you ignore Muslim atrocities and excuse such acts even going to far as to embrace the religion. The first time you and your ilk say anything negative about the "religion of peace", will be the first.


17trillion: Posted: August 13, 2014 11:37 a.m.

Yea, those Christians and their bigotry! I can sure see why you have your panties in a bundle.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/terrorism/thats-my-boy-shocking-photograph-of-a-seven-year-old-boy-brandishing-the-head-of-a-syrian-soldier-and-his-jihadist-father-who-took-it/


stevehw: Posted: August 13, 2014 2:05 p.m.

"Christians displaying bigotry and hatred doesn't cause me any concern that I might lose my head. "

Of course not...you're not on the receiving end of it, like say, homosexuals or minorities or other targets of such "Christian" religious bigotries.

And your feeble attempts at strawmen arguments are laughable...where have I ever "ignored Muslim atrocities" or excused them or embraced said religion or anything else?

It IS possible to condemn both their atrocities AND some so-called Christians' bigotry, hatred and violence, you know.

Are you asserting that there is no such thing as violence, hatred, and bigotry committed by Christians or Christian groups?


therightstuff: Posted: August 13, 2014 7:25 p.m.

"""It IS possible to condemn both their atrocities AND some so-called Christians' bigotry, hatred and violence, you know."""

Yes, and while we're at it we could also condemn the atrocities done by the bigotry, hatred and violence of atheistic regimes.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


stevehw: Posted: August 13, 2014 7:39 p.m.

So you *did* get my point.


therightstuff: Posted: August 13, 2014 9:59 p.m.

Absolutely. I'd say there's plenty of hypocrisy to go around.


stevehw: Posted: August 13, 2014 10:34 p.m.

Perhaps you could enlighten our friend 17 a bit...he seems to think his religion is free of hatred, violence and bigotry.


therightstuff: Posted: August 13, 2014 11:04 p.m.

Where are you getting that from 17T?


ricketzz: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:11 a.m.

Jihadists are religious conservatives. Christian conservatives in positions of power are cruel to homosexuals, Jews, intellectuals, free thinkers, etc., because some Sadist named Calvin posited that your lot in life is predestined, you are poor because your faith sucks and that work shall not set you free.

I like monks and nuns. If you want to have the whole world agree with your faith, make your world much smaller.


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:31 a.m.

"Where are you getting that from 17T?"

Uh...here?

"People making some hair brained moral equivalency between Christians and Muslims is without a doubt the most repugnant thing I've ever seen or heard. There is absolutely no equivalence between these two peoples. One is, for the most part, good and a doer of good things in this country and the world. The other is evil, vile, and disgusting."


hopeful: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:43 a.m.

Stevehw wrote: "Perhaps you could enlighten our friend 17 a bit...he seems to think his religion is free of hatred, violence and bigotry."

17T has gone on record many times, saying that he is an atheist.


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:50 a.m.

"17T has gone on record many times, saying that he is an atheist. "

For an atheist, he certainly is defensive about one particular religion. Color me skeptical.


therightstuff: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:53 a.m.

Steve, T17 said: "One is, for the most part, good and a doer of good things"

Still not seeing where you leap to the conclusion, "he seems to think his religion is free of hatred, violence and bigotry." When he says "for the most part" I think he's allowing for the less redemptive parts of those who profess some sort of Christianity.

If anything I would take issue about Muslims being evil, vile and disgusting. There are extremists in every religion or movement.




stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 12:04 p.m.

"There are extremists in every religion or movement."

Yes, there are...probably in about the same percentages for all of them.

I was only pointing out the hypocrisy..."*my* favorite religion is pretty much ALL good and noble and honest, but *their* religion is "evil, vile and disgusting". Of course, *I* am compassionate and understanding and forgiving and good"...followed closely by calling those who disagree with you "idiot" "moron" or "you make me sick" etc.


therightstuff: Posted: August 14, 2014 12:12 p.m.

"""For an atheist, he certainly is defensive about one particular religion. Color me skeptical."""

So says the constant critic of the "christianists". I'll color you hypocritical.


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 12:49 p.m.

Thank you hopeful. Trying to reason with Steve is like discussing a concept with a wrench. I've yet to ever hear of a Christian claim he was an atheist, not once, ever!

And finally Steve, I never called you an idiot or moron, but if the shoe fits? And yes, you do make me sick.


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 12:53 p.m.

How very Christ-like of you.


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 12:55 p.m.

"If anything I would take issue about Muslims being evil, vile and disgusting. There are extremists in every religion or movement."

Good point! Christian extremists hate homosexuals. They think abortion is murder. A very few have even molested young boys.

Muslim extremists decapitate people. They marry 9 year old girls. They EXECUTE homosexuals. They forbid girls from going to school or drive or vote or work outside the house. Hell, some Muslim women can't even go outside their house without a male relative. Muslim extremists kill Christians. They deny the Holocaust and think Jews drink their blood. And we all know what Muslim extremists think of Jews and the State of Israel.

And yet despite all this, "people" like Steve think Christians are awful people, just as bad as extreme Muslims and thus I find him to be morally repugnant. There is absolutely NO comparison on the religious extremes of Christians and Muslims.


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 12:56 p.m.

I don't believe in Christ beyond him being a person in the same way Plato was. Are you illiterate?


therightstuff: Posted: August 14, 2014 2:39 p.m.

"""Christian extremists hate homosexuals."""

Anyone who hates is no more a Christian than a terrorist who murders innocents is a Muslim.


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 2:47 p.m.

I agree TRS, just trying to make a point that the worst one can say about Christians is they hate homosexuals where the worst you can say about Muslims is that they kill them. Steve has never said squat about the heinous acts of Islam, but he constantly spews a bunch of nonsense about Christians forgetting the fact that there might be a 100 million Muslims that would gladly have his head on a spike. It's theater of the absurd!


tech: Posted: August 14, 2014 2:57 p.m.

You're not sticking to your assigned role, 17t! True atheists would never defend religious freedom. Be a sport and stay on script, i.e. you're a closet Christian. It makes it far easier to demonize you from the heights of moral, strike that, ethical superiority.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/atheist-penn-jillette-and-a-catholic-priest-give-civility-lesson-on-msnbc/ --edited.


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 3:50 p.m.

"the worst one can say about Christians is they hate homosexuals "

Because there have never been any Christian extremists who killed people? Seriously?


CaptGene: Posted: August 14, 2014 3:55 p.m.

Has anyone asked steve what century he thinks it is?


tech: Posted: August 14, 2014 4:17 p.m.

You can't acknowledge change when engaged in polemics, CG. For example, Senator Robert Byrd, Majority Leader and "Conscience of the Senate" come of age as a member of the Ku Klux Klan and cast a "no" vote on the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964. So that defines him for the ages and nothing else matters.

See how that works? The past is present.


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 4:26 p.m.

I'll point to one example: bombings of abortion clinics and murder of doctors who provide abortions.


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 4:39 p.m.

Look Steve, a bird! Isn't it pretty?


tech: Posted: August 14, 2014 4:45 p.m.

Steve: Are you seriously positing that your statistical outlier is representative of Christians as a group in 2014?


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 4:54 p.m.

Does anyone wonder if Steve knows how many abortion clinics have been bombed since Roe in 1973? Does anyone wonder if Steve knows how many doctors or employees have been injured or killed in that time? I know the answer and nobody would be surprised except Steve that it's a minute number!

Again with the equivalence! Muslim savages are beheading children and burying people alive and setting people on fire, today, now, as I type this. Steve's retort is one abortion doctor being killed in the last 15 years by one wacko.

Steve's tortured logic:

1 Christian wacko = 100 million, give or take, Muslim extremists that would love to inflict their form of punishment upon you as directed by their interpretation of the Koran.

How about a challenge Steve? I'll go to Dogpatch Arkansas and raise a Koran and sing the praises of Allah in front of a bunch of people. You go to Islamabad and raise the bible and sing the praises of Jesus and we'll see how your equivalence works for you.


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 5:22 p.m.

tech...no, and that's my point. 17's position is that a statistically very small set of his favorite target group is indicative of all of *that* group.


17trillion: Posted: August 14, 2014 5:36 p.m.

What? Statistically small? Your example uses one abortion clinic bombing in the last 15 years among a Christian population of over 1 billion and you accuse me of using a statistically small number? ONE! Every study and everyone that claims knowledge of such indicate that Islamic extremists number approximately 10% of the Muslim population. But lets say it's only 1 percent, that's still 15 MILLION wackos running around causing mayhem and you cite 1 guy in the last 15 years? Only you would think 150 million or even playing your dumb game, 15 million, is a small set, statistically or otherwise. This reminds me of our default conversation on the government shut down. You just couldn't get it through your mind that the government was still collecting 75% of what it needed to "survive" and in fact no such grand "shut down" occurred unless it was to open air monuments.


CaptGene: Posted: August 14, 2014 5:37 p.m.

steve: "17's position is that a statistically very small set of his favorite target group is indicative of all of *that* group"

You are saying that it is a "statistically very small" group? Tell me please what that "statistically very small" number is and where you get your information. A percentage would be fine too.

edit: 17T, you beat me to it by one minute! --edited.


tech: Posted: August 14, 2014 6:50 p.m.

Here's a resource to ensure we're dealing with accurate baseline numbers:

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-exec/


tech: Posted: August 14, 2014 7:00 p.m.

Pew Global Opinion Survey

Topic: Concerns about Islamic Extremism on the Rise in Middle East

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/

Chart: Muslim Views on Suicide Bombing

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/pg-2014-07-01-islamic-extremism-10/


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 14, 2014 7:27 p.m.

Just this week:

2014.08.13 (el-Mattallah, Egypt) - A 13-year-old child bleeds out from a Hamas rocket fired from Gaza.
2014.08.13 (Lahj, Yemen) - A bomb planted by al-Qaeda takes out fourteen innocents on a main street.
2014.08.12 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Thirteen people lose their lives to a Mujahideen bombing outside a family home.
2014.08.11 (Bieji, Iraq) - Two Iraqis are kidnapped and shot in the head by al-Qaeda.
2014.08.11 (Mayadin, Syria) - Four men are crucified by the Islamic State - two for blasphemy and two for 'dealing with apostates'.
2014.08.10 (Doron Baga, Nigeria) - Pro-Sharia gunmen fire into a village, killing over thirty residents while shouting 'Allah Akbar'.

Religion of peace, indeed...


therightstuff: Posted: August 14, 2014 7:36 p.m.

"""you're not on the receiving end of it, like say, homosexuals or minorities or other targets of such "Christian" religious bigotries."""

Who do you think was the biggest target of hatred and bigotry?

Michael Sam because he is gay

Tim Tebow because he's a Christian


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:24 p.m.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

Quite a few more than just 1 bombing, and some murders thrown in to boot.

But I guess those are okay, because it's a smaller number, right?

Do I need to talk about racist right-wing groups who believe they are justified by their Christianity?


stevehw: Posted: August 14, 2014 11:45 p.m.

" Every study and everyone that claims knowledge of such indicate that Islamic extremists number approximately 10% of the Muslim population. "

Leaving aside the "every study" and "everyone" statements...that still means that NINETY PERCENT of adherents do NOT believe in extremism (and presumably are not murderers or terrorists). And yet, you stated:

"[Islam as a religion] is evil, vile, and disgusting."

Tarring 900,000,000 people with such a broad brush is a bit much, wouldn't you say?


therightstuff: Posted: August 15, 2014 12:16 a.m.

Did the same guy who posted this:

"Do I need to talk about racist right-wing groups who believe they are justified by their Christianity?"

Also post this earlier?

"For an atheist, he certainly is defensive about one particular religion."


tech: Posted: August 15, 2014 2:24 a.m.

"But I guess those are okay, because it's a smaller number, right?"

Are you positing a current statistically equivalent correlation between extremists that profess Christianity and Islamists that support violent jihad, Steve?


ricketzz: Posted: August 15, 2014 10:37 a.m.

Logic demands we globally reduce the importance of religion going forward. We are entering an era of unprecedented cooperation and "faith anxiety" will just get in the way. Religion is for Sunday, or Saturday or after lunch on Friday. Wednesday is Bible study. Not all the freaking time. Zombie Apocalypse and born agains are too much alike for this cowboy. There are a billion Christians and a billion Muslims and most of the rest of us (four billion) wish y'all would just chill. Thanks.


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 15, 2014 12:54 p.m.

stevehw-

Good website. Proves the point I was trying to make. Using your reference website, there were 47 crimes by "Christians" against abortion vendors over a 31 year period in the 4 countries cited (note that I counted each murder/site separately). That is 1.52 crimes per year.

For Islamic violence, there were 6 crimes in one week (let's use 8 to normalize for Thurs and Fri). Over 52 weeks, that is 416 crimes per year in 5 countries.

I tried to normalize in population but its really a wash. 318MM people in US (not counting Aus/NZ/Can) versus 337MM in the 5 islamic countries.

So, per your own website, you are 273 times more likely to suffer an incident of islamic violence than an act of abortion violence. What does that say, Steve?


stevehw: Posted: August 15, 2014 1:36 p.m.

It says that if you only use abortion violence, and not other types of crimes or violent acts, you'll get a number.

I think you're still missing the point here...


17trillion: Posted: August 15, 2014 2:29 p.m.

"I think you're still missing the point here..."

Laughing!

Ok Steve, go to Islamabad and waive a bible in the air and praise Jesus then! According to you, the outcome would be the same if I went to Mobile AL and did the same with a Koran.

What is it about liberals that prevent them from ever admitting they are wrong? Clearly it's a mental condition.


CaptGene: Posted: August 15, 2014 3:18 p.m.

What a crack up, steve doesn't like the stats, and he expects you to come up with some he likes. That boy is in serious denial.


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 15, 2014 3:38 p.m.

Geez, Steve. 1.5 crimes per year sounds fairly puny. Much better than 416 per year (over 1 per day).

Steve, all societies have crazies. Its unavoidable. These crazies will always create a baseline of criminal "noise" like 1.5 crimes in a year.

When a number is at 416 per year, there is something far greater going on. Like, a societal/cultural tendency towards violence- what could be the cause of that, I wonder?


tech: Posted: August 15, 2014 3:40 p.m.

"I think you're still missing the point here..." - stevehw

I disagree, Steve. Objectively, it appears your personal animus towards Christians is causing you to disregard Christian and Muslim religious violence comparative datasets that differ by orders of magnitude.


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 15, 2014 3:58 p.m.

One thing I forgot to mention. I "cheated" the Islamic data a bit. If 30 people were killed in an attack (like on 8/10 in Nigeria), I only counted that as one crime.

If I counted individuals/sites, there would be 64 (normalized to 80) in one week. So, add a zero to the calculation; 4000 crimes per year of Islamic violence.

Sobering, to say the least. This makes the Crusades look like a church picnic, eh Steve?


stevehw: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:00 p.m.

"According to you, the outcome would be the same if I went to Mobile AL and did the same with a Koran."

Where did I say that? You *did* call the entire religion of Islam "evil, vile, and disgusting", though, did you not?

You continue to post ridiculous strawmen, putting words into my mouth:

' "people" like Steve think Christians are awful people, just as bad as extreme Muslims' (really? you had to put quotes around "people"?)

I never said that Christians were awful people, and you'll not find any such statement from me in any thread. I never said they were "just as bad as extreme (sic) Muslims", either.

Unlike you, I never painted an entire group of people numbering in the hundreds of millions with a single broad brush.

My point, which you apparently continue to miss, is that Christianity is *not* 100% free from hatred, bigotry and violence. In fact, quite far from it, historically. A corollary point was that Islam is not 100% violent, and again, far from it (even your own supposed statistics admit that 90% of a billion Muslims are *not* violent or extremist, so why do you call the entire religion "evil"?).

Your blanket condemnation of an entire religion (likely one you've never bothered to study, I'll wager) is a *perfect* example of bigotry.


stevehw: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:04 p.m.

AR...I don't know, the Crusades killed between 1 and 3 million people, so they weren't too shabby in the murder department.


stevehw: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:06 p.m.

"Objectively, it appears your personal animus towards Christians is causing you to disregard Christian and Muslim religious violence comparative datasets that differ by orders of magnitude. "

No, I'm not. I'm pointing out the *hypocrisy* and *bigotry* of calling an entire religious group, consisting of a billion people worldwide, "evil" while ignoring the long and sordid history of another religious group and calling them "good".

The stark black-and-white statement "Islam evil; Christianity good" is bigoted.


tech: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:09 p.m.

Thanks for performing the analytics, AR. It's frequently useful to compare hyperbole and objective data. In this instance, it's sobering as well.


tech: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:19 p.m.

The way you frame it, who could disagree, Steve? However, here's 17t's 2nd post in full and it's just not a match:

"There may not be an all out war against Christians in this country but there is a degree of utter contempt that I find disgusting. People making some hair brained moral equivalency between Christians and Muslims is without a doubt the most repugnant thing I've ever seen or heard. There is absolutely no equivalence between these two peoples. One is, for the most part, good and a doer of good things in this country and the world. The other is evil, vile, and disgusting. Yea, yea, I know, all Muslims aren't terrorists. I get it, but until they start policing the actions of their fellow Muslims, they are all complicit in my opinion. If the radicals and terrorists are such a small minority of Muslims, yea right, then why are they not eradicated?

Signed,

An atheist"


CaptGene: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:33 p.m.

17T: "What is it about liberals that prevent them from ever admitting they are wrong? Clearly it's a mental condition"

No kidding!


stevehw: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:46 p.m.

" One is, for the most part, good and a doer of good things in this country and the world. ***********The other is evil, vile, and disgusting**********. Yea, yea, I know, all Muslims aren't terrorists. I get it, but until they start policing the actions of their fellow Muslims, *****they are all complicit in my opinion.******** "

So until Christians "eradicate" violent Christian groups like the Army of God, the various "Christian Patriot" groups, the KKK, etc., are they "complicit" as well?

Sauce for the gander, after all. If 90% of Muslims not *eradicating* the violent 10% makes them "complicit" in the violence, then the majority of Christians not "eradicating" the small minority of violent Christian groups has to make *them* "complicit", as well, doesn't it?

Or do we have different sets of rules for Muslims than we do for Christians?

BTW, how exactly would they "eradicate" them? Kill them?


stevehw: Posted: August 15, 2014 4:59 p.m.

"If the radicals and murderers are such a small minority of Christians, yea right, then why are they not eradicated?"


therightstuff: Posted: August 15, 2014 7:26 p.m.

stevehw: """My point, which you apparently continue to miss, is that Christianity is *not* 100% free from hatred, bigotry and violence."""

I think you're missing your own point.

Assigning "hatred, bigotry and violence" to an entire faith because of a small percentage of some misguided lunatics who claim to be Christians is as unfair as assigning the acts of evil terrorists who claim to do it for Allah to the Muslim faith.

If a black man holds up a liquor store and shoots the clerk, would you say that the black race is not 100% free from violence and murder or would you condemn the idiot who robbed the store?

And as an atheist I don't think you want to bring up the millions murdered through the crusades unless you're willing to take responsibility for the tens of millions more massacred by regimes led by atheists. Should we blame Hitler or Stalin and their insane followers or should we blame atheism? --edited.


tech: Posted: August 15, 2014 7:42 p.m.

Here's a how to from a source you can appreciate, Steve. Seems a bit more rational than an absurd "eradicate" polemic.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/12/vatican-iraq/13946961/


Nitsho: Posted: August 15, 2014 9:32 p.m.

Being a Muslim is awesome unless....

You're a woman
You're a liberal (all religions)
You're a conservative (all religions but Muslim)
You're a homosexual
You're a religion other than Muslim
You're an atheist
You're a child
You have an education (other than just the Koran)

Any questions? --edited.


stevehw: Posted: August 16, 2014 12:11 a.m.

"Assigning "hatred, bigotry and violence" to an entire faith because of a small percentage of some misguided lunatics who claim to be Christians is as unfair as assigning the acts of evil terrorists who claim to do it for Allah to the Muslim faith."

Correct. Which is why I never did it. As opposed to 17, who assigned the actions of a few to the entirety of Muslims.

I'm not sure how much simpler I have to make this to get the point across...


therightstuff: Posted: August 16, 2014 1:32 a.m.

Uhh....you just said that "Christianity is *not* 100% free from hatred, bigotry and violence."

How is that not assigning the actions of a few to the entirety of Christianity?


Nitsho: Posted: August 16, 2014 1:50 p.m.

TRS. Why do you feed the likes of Steve. He's clearly not very bright and can't seem to make sense. It's only a matter of time until he goes loony bird like Cricketzz. He has his own warped opinion that have no factual basis or relevance in current times. He rehashes liberal talking points and loves to side with a religion he would clearly he beheaded if they got their hajji hands on him.

Let him scream from their mosques and critize thier religion and let's see how far he gets. Not even an apology of all the wrongs America did won't save him.

I for once would like to see people be proud of being an American and stand up for her rather than bash her thinking they will get a liberal utopia.

They will never understand that ideology will never beat reality.



stevehw: Posted: August 16, 2014 2:57 p.m.

"How is that not assigning the actions of a few to the entirety of Christianity? "

Are you serious? If I say some members of a group are X, where do you get the idea that I'm saying that all members of a group are X?

I'm not the one who said that...I'm pointing out the *fallacy* of saying such a thing (especially as it was stated about one religious belief, but not another).


stevehw: Posted: August 16, 2014 2:59 p.m.

Nitsho (what happened? did your previous handle "Nitesho" get banned?)...

Nice ad hominem attack. Meaningless, of course, and adds nothing to the debate. Well done.


Nitsho: Posted: August 16, 2014 4:31 p.m.

Wrong again Steve but we are use to that from you

I changed it awhile back becuase people kept leaving the "e" out. It was a joke amungst all of us. Except you of course.

Ironic you of all people would say something is meaningless and adds nothing to the debate. --edited.


Nitsho: Posted: August 16, 2014 5:19 p.m.

Ugh...wrong again...stupid iPad auto correct.


Nitsho: Posted: August 16, 2014 6:47 p.m.

.<fixed original comment>


ricketzz: Posted: August 17, 2014 10:27 a.m.

The people robbing the Treasury as we speak love it when you morons argue about friggin' religion. I have blasphemed. Oh my.

Divide and conquer predates Sun Tzu (very close to the oldest trick in the book). Morons.


therightstuff: Posted: August 17, 2014 11:39 p.m.

Steve: """If I say some members of a group are X, where do you get the idea that I'm saying that all members of a group are X?"""

Because that's not what you said.

You didn't say some Christians...you said "Christianity" thus contradicting your own point.


stevehw: Posted: August 18, 2014 2:23 a.m.

How about quoting exactly what I said? It's perfectly obvious what I was saying, and that wasn't it.

Where did I ever say that because some Christians are violent or bigoted, all of Christianity is?


ricketzz: Posted: August 18, 2014 9:59 a.m.

I like the story of Jesus' rebellious holiday weekend in the big city; his arrest and execution (for disturbing the peace?). I even find some quaint charm in the alleged resurrection. Until the 5th century the Christ Cult was an indie fringe religion, like the Satanists we are aiding on the mountain right now. Then the Romans usurped the Christ Cult and applied all their globalist management and PR skills and turned Jesus from a principled revolutionary with a bad sense of public support to a leader of Conquering Armies.

Christ good; Christianity bad.


therightstuff: Posted: August 18, 2014 10:27 a.m.

Steve: """How about quoting exactly what I said?"""

Here 'tis:

"My point, which you apparently continue to miss, is that Christianity is *not* 100% free from hatred, bigotry and violence."

You should have said not all people who profess to be Christians are 100% free from hatred, bigotry and violence. Instead you said "Christianity" thus indicting the religion and not just some misguided followers.

Why is it so hard to just admit you just misspoke? No biggie.


stevehw: Posted: August 18, 2014 12:02 p.m.

"You should have said not all people who profess to be Christians are 100% free from hatred, bigotry and violence. Instead you said "Christianity" thus indicting the religion and not just some misguided followers."

Seriously? You can't grasp the context that the word "Christianity" as used clearly meant "people who practice the Christian religion"? *Seriously*?

Talk about picking flysh*t from pepper...


CaptGene: Posted: August 18, 2014 1:14 p.m.

steve: "You can't grasp the context that the word "Christianity" as used clearly meant "people who practice the Christian religion"?"

Show me where killing abortion doctors is an accepted part of the "Christian religion" please.


stevehw: Posted: August 18, 2014 1:53 p.m.

"Show me where killing abortion doctors is an accepted part of the "Christian religion" please."

Well, according to some peoples' beliefs and interpretations, it is. It's pretty well-documented how those advocating for or committing violence against abortion clinics and doctors rely on religious arguments to support their actions.

In their minds, they are absolutely right and doing what God requires them to do.


therightstuff: Posted: August 18, 2014 3:03 p.m.

"""In their minds, they are absolutely right and doing what God requires them to do."""

That's the key Steve..."in their minds"

When a terrorist flies a plane into a building to kill innocent people in the name of Allah, these actions are condemned by true Muslims who disavow such actions as part of their faith.

When a terrorist bombs an abortion clinic to kill innocent people in the name of God, these actions are condemned by true Christians who disavow such actions as part of their faith.

But for some odd reason you want to lump them in as part of these faiths which makes as much sense as blaming atheism for Hitler.


17trillion: Posted: August 18, 2014 3:25 p.m.

"Show me where killing abortion doctors is an accepted part of the "Christian religion" please."

Steve: "Well, according to some peoples' beliefs and interpretations, it is."

Just as it some peoples beliefs that it's great to kill gays, marry and fornicate with 9 year old girls, fly planes into buildings, not allow women to vote, go to school, leave the home, or drive, be a Christian, definitely be a Jew, be an atheist, barter to marry a female, kill someone who mocks Mohammed, destroys 1500 year old Hindu statues, kill people (anyone will do) in response to a cartoon, outlaw music, books, internet, tv, behead people, stone women, being proud of your child for holding a head (just a head), and....well, gosh I can see where an abortion doctor being murdered 15 years ago would make you equate Christians with a couple hundred million people who believe in the above.

Steve: "A single Christian does something bad therefore millions of Muslims doing something bad, if not hundreds of millions of Muslims, is just as bad.

The real irony is that 99.9999% of Christians would condemn a so-called Christian for doing something bad while I'm guessing far less than a majority of Muslims would condemn Daniel Pearl getting his head cut off on the internet.


stevehw: Posted: August 18, 2014 3:32 p.m.

"When a terrorist flies a plane into a building to kill innocent people in the name of Allah, these actions are condemned by true Muslims who disavow such actions as part of their faith.

When a terrorist bombs an abortion clinic to kill innocent people in the name of God, these actions are condemned by true Christians who disavow such actions as part of their faith."

And once again, you miss the point.

In the minds of the Islamist extremist committing murder, HE is the one who is in the right and is the "true Muslim", just as in the mind of the abortion clinic bomber or the KKK member or what have you, HE is the "true Christian".

You say they're not "true Muslims" or "true Christians". They say they are. You say they're wrong. They say you're wrong.

"But for some odd reason you want to lump them in as part of these faiths which makes as much sense as blaming atheism for Hitler. "

Ah, Godwin's law. Never mind that...I am NOT lumping them in together. For the umpteenth time...I am only pointing out what should be *obvious*: that a blanket claim that virtually all of Islam is "evil", or that if Islam somehow fails to rid itself of everyone claiming to be a "true Muslim" but committing acts of violence makes the entire religion "complicit" in the violence, *then the same rules should apply to Christianity*, should it not?

I think Jesus said something about this...something about removing the beam from your own eye before plucking the speck from your brother's.

Pretty sure he said that.


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 18, 2014 3:35 p.m.

And, this just in;

2014.08.16 (Samarrah, Iraq) - Religion of Peace bombers target an engineering team trying to repair a bridge, killing three.
2014.08.16 (Beledweyne, Somalia) - A woman is among two people shot dead by al-Shabaab fundamentalists.
2014.08.16 (Kucho, Iraq) - Another three-hundred religious minorities are slaughtered in cold blood by the Islamic State after refusing to convert.
2014.08.15 (Deir al-Zor, Syria) - Seven-hundred tribesman are executed by the caliphate over the course of a week, mostly by beheading.
2014.08.15 (Jalawla, Iraq) - A Shiite imam is executed in front of his mosque by dedicated Sunnis, who then blow up the mosque.
2014.08.15 (Akhtarin, Syria) - Caliphate members slit the throats of nine captives.

This will definitely skew the violence numbers a bit. Someone remind me again how this is the moral equivalent of Christianity?


17trillion: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:02 p.m.

I missed the point? So far the only person that gets your "point" is Ricketzz. You must be so proud. I rest my case!

AR, we've already discussed this. 15 years ago an abortion doctor was killed thus there is moral equivalence to the barbarianism that Muslims do every second of every day. There is absolutely something wrong with Islam for this to be happening. Were I Christian and were this a daily example of my faith, I would disavow my faith.

Don't Muslims know that the phrase, "Religion of Peace" has now become almost comical?


stevehw: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:14 p.m.

"15 years ago an abortion doctor was killed "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

Dr. Tiller was murdered in 2009. Not to mention various bombings and such. Or other kinds of violence.

But the real point is that you make ALL muslims "complicit" in the crimes of some, but do not apply the same principle to Christians. THAT is the point.

Nobody is saying that the murderous actions of Islamic extremists are equivalent in scope or scale to the murderous actions of Christian extremists. You keep trying to throw that strawman out to deflect from your own Christian apologist stance (and anti-Muslim bigotry).


CaptGene: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:27 p.m.

steve: "It's pretty well-documented how those advocating for or committing violence against abortion clinics and doctors rely on religious arguments to support their actions."

Prove it. If it's so "well documented", why not include the proof to begin with?


17trillion: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:38 p.m.

5 years, 15 years, blah blah blah.....

AR counters with what had done by Muslims TODAY! And yet I'm missing the point. You whine that I don't blame Christianity for some nutbag killing an abortion doctor 5 years ago but I blame Muslims for crimes against humanity that are done every second of every day as we speak. Cover your head Steve, your argument is collapsing upon you.

Yes, I make all Muslims complicit. The reason I do so is because Muslims acts of barbarianism happen every second of every day. Do 80 million people in Iran care if a homosexual or 10 are hung by the neck? Do a 100 Pakistanis care if Daniel Pearl is beheaded on tv? Do 50 million Saudis care if women can't drive or vote or work or leave the house of if one gets raped it takes 4 male witnesses to convict? I'm sure there are a few that are ok, but the vast majority are guilty via their silence. Yes, I condemn the entire religion until a significant part of said religion stands up to the atrocities done on behalf of Mohammed. Yes, I am a bigot. I have a stubborn and complete intolerance for that particular religion which I don't have for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, or Buddists, or atheists, or any other religion or non-religion that I can think of. Not one! Were they to act like civilized people living in the 21st century, then I would harbor no animosity towards them.

Yes, I am a bigot when is comes to Islam! At least I have the sack to admit it, unlike you and your bigotry towards Christianity.


17trillion: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:48 p.m.

By the way Steve, even Bill Maher says that people who compare violence perpetuated by Christians with violence done by Muslims are full of.............."poop" and you sir qualify! Watch the video and learn something for a change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YG_mqZJKcM


17trillion: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:52 p.m.

Name the ONLY religion that will kill you if you leave it? Name the only religion that will kill you, in large parts of the world, if you don't embrace it? On the other hand, there's that nutjob who killed Dr. Tiller 5 years ago. Laughing, not at Tiller being killed but by the absurdity of your position. --edited.


stevehw: Posted: August 18, 2014 4:56 p.m.

"Yes, I am a bigot when is comes to Islam!"

I think we got that a while back.

I do admire your whole-hearted acceptance of violence committed by Christians, in the same breath, though. It's rare to see such a shining example of cognitive dissonance.


17trillion: Posted: August 18, 2014 5:18 p.m.

"I do admire your whole-hearted acceptance of violence committed by Christians, in the same breath"

On another thread your whined and cried about other people putting words in your mouth. I find the "cognitive dissonance" to be hilarious. But this doesn't surprise me where you're concerned. The entire thread is devoted to ignorant people equating Christian violence with Islamic violence. But ok smart guy, I'll play your game. I'll admit I accept Dr. Tiller being murdered and the few, several, less than a couple handful of murders done on behalf of Christianity if you accept the same done on behalf of Islam. What do you say? You rant about one guy or a couple of guys where I rant about hundreds of millions!

I'm sure you think you're a really smart guy throwing around terms like cognitive dissonance, but you're not fooling anyone, maybe other than Ricketzz.

Name the only religion that can get you killed if you leave? Yea, I am a bigot and rightly so! I'm a bigot against Nazis too. I'm a bigot against the KKK and pedophiles and rapists. The irony is that large portions of Islam embraces that which I'm a bigot against. I never really thought of that until now. Interesting.


hopeful: Posted: August 18, 2014 5:26 p.m.

Stevehw - less than 3 hours ago, you said "I do wish people would quit putting words in my mouth..." Even though on that LTE, originally written by Steve Lunetta, you apologized to 17 for doing what you accused others of, you turn around so quickly and do it AGAIN!

Where did 17trillion ever say anything that shows any " whole-hearted acceptance of violence committed by Christians?"


therightstuff: Posted: August 18, 2014 5:39 p.m.

Steve: """And once again, you miss the point."""

At last we are agreed.


ricketzz: Posted: August 19, 2014 10:05 a.m.

The Old Testament is about the wholesale slaughter of children as much as it is about when it's appropriate to beat people. There is no Biblical prohibition of abortion. Same as war. Slay away.


17trillion: Posted: August 19, 2014 11:55 a.m.

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The Islamic State militant group that has seized large parts of Iraq and drawn the first American air strikes since the end of the occupation in 2011 has warned the United States it will attack Americans "in any place" if the raids hit its militants.

The video, which shows a photograph of an American who was beheaded during the U.S. occupation of Iraq and victims of snipers, featured a statement which said in English "we will drown all of you in blood".



And ol Steve fears Christians? On another note, can we retire the phrase "religion of peace" as it relates to Islam? I looked at the website from CAIR and found no condemnation for what ISIS is doing. But at least Ricketzz cites passages from a book that's thousands of years old to make his point, whatever that may be.


17trillion: Posted: August 19, 2014 12:15 p.m.

"IRAQI CHRISTIANS forced out of Mosul — their home for two millennia — by Islamic State militants find refuge in churches, like the one seen left, more than 100 miles from bloodthirsty jihadists offering Christians a somber choice: convert to Islam or die."

Such a peaceful people! Not only that, the outrage from the Islamic community is, well, certainly not deafening. Boy, not only can you get yourself killed for leaving this merry band of pranksters, but now you can get killed for NOT joining them.


stevehw: Posted: August 19, 2014 12:19 p.m.

"And ol Steve fears Christians?"

Did I SAY that?

Another strawman "argument".


17trillion: Posted: August 19, 2014 12:35 p.m.

"Maybe for the same reason Christians haven't been able to eradicate pockets of bigotry and hatred within *their* religion?"

"Of course not...you're not on the receiving end of it, like say, homosexuals or minorities or other targets of such "Christian" religious bigotries."

"Are you asserting that there is no such thing as violence, hatred, and bigotry committed by Christians or Christian groups?"

"Do I need to talk about racist right-wing groups who believe they are justified by their Christianity?"

"AR...I don't know, the Crusades killed between 1 and 3 million people, so they weren't too shabby in the murder department."

"I do admire your whole-hearted acceptance of violence committed by Christians, in the same breath, though. It's rare to see such a shining example of cognitive dissonance."

Perhaps "fear" was the wrong word. What word would YOU use to describe the author of the above remarks?











AlwaysRight: Posted: August 19, 2014 12:57 p.m.

17t- I always thought our diplomatic language was incomprehensible to much of the Islamic world. They say: "we will drown all of you in blood". Our response is typically wimpy.

Maybe we should say: "And we will grease the treads of our tanks with your guts" (wasn't this a Patton quote?)

Or: "You will be buried entombed in pork fat with bacon inserted in your pie-hole" (do they eat pie in the Middle East?)

Enough with the weak language of diplomacy....


17trillion: Posted: August 19, 2014 1:06 p.m.

Laughing.....

I couldn't agree more! I'm reading a book currently called Wild Fire by Nelson DeMille. The concept of the book is such that if an American city is ever nuked or struck with a significant WMD, then our response would be to nuke a significant portion of the Islamic world. In theory the leaders of the Islamic world are aware of this policy and are aware that it's an automated process that is free from our leader being a (another word for cat). The author in his forward suggests that such a policy in some form actually exists. If it does, I'm thankful.


stevehw: Posted: August 19, 2014 2:22 p.m.

"Perhaps "fear" was the wrong word. What word would YOU use to describe the author of the above remarks?"

I'd say said author understands that pretty much any religion is going to have some percentage of hate-filled, violent bigots, and that at times, they're going to do quite a bit of killing (and may even be in charge of the religion at some point), and that pretending otherwise is a child's game.


17trillion: Posted: August 19, 2014 2:50 p.m.

Would the author also understand that the percentage of Christians that are violent is miniscule while the percentage of Muslims that are violent is not only substantial, but problematic for the entire human race? Would the author understand that a tiny percentage of so-called Christians targeting an even smaller universe of abortion doctors doesn't compare to millions of Muslims targeting, well, pretty much everyone? Would the author understand that an abortion doctor being killed by a Christian 5 years ago does not equate to Muslims killing pretty much everyone everyday? Would the author understand that the "Christian" abortion doctor killer would and is condemned by almost all Christians while Muslim murderers are not only not condemned, but hailed as heroes and true followers of the Koran and the Prophet?

I wonder how many people Muslims have killed while I wrote this in the name of their religion? I'm thinking the same question as it applies to Christians is zero. THAT, is the point!


17trillion: Posted: August 19, 2014 6:38 p.m.

Here ya go Steve:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/19/is-beheads-american-journalist-on-camera/

I guess I answered my own question from the above post.


ricketzz: Posted: August 20, 2014 11:23 a.m.

The Daily Caller is a hyper-ideological rag run by Tucker Carlson. He probably ran the video, too.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bljonstewartcrossfire.htm


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 20, 2014 7:38 p.m.

17t- hate to burst your bubble. Last week, there were 1,079 people killed in 7 days. That's 154/day, 6.4/hr, or about 1 every 10 minutes.

So, only one person croaked at the hands of Islam while you wrote your post. Of course, one person died while I was figuring this out...

[Heck, 20 people die when Indy writes his posts...]


tech: Posted: August 21, 2014 12:02 a.m.

Poisoning the well doesn't amount to High School level "debate", ricketzz.


ricketzz: Posted: August 21, 2014 10:19 a.m.

Just using the word "behead" is part of the fear campaign. Jim got murdered. To share any info beyond that is to serve the Barbarians. Shame on anyone who watched the video. Obama shows great strength by not taking the bait.

We will need to eat crow and join Iran and Russia, Bashir al Assad, Moqtadr al Sadr and the Kurds (including the PKK) to defeat the extremists. Then clamp it back down like before Shock and Awe, under the UN.


17trillion: Posted: August 21, 2014 12:13 p.m.

I know the Daily Caller is partisan, what the F does that have to do with anything? Did the guy lose his head or not?

Naturally we hear nothing from our resident Christian basher Steve. Silence! And where is the outrage from the Islamic community Steve? I've looked, but I can't find it. Friggin animals if you ask me. No, that is an insult to animals.


stevehw: Posted: August 21, 2014 3:07 p.m.

What do you want me to say? The same thing I've said before, that violence committed by Islamic extremists is bad?

Now I'm a "Christian basher" for a) pointing out the supposed Christians do bad things all the time, too, and b) not being vehement enough for you because I refuse to call and entire religion "evil"?

Whatever...


17trillion: Posted: August 21, 2014 3:53 p.m.

All the time? According to you, the last time was 5 years ago. Doesn't sound like "all the time" to me. Now, for our regularly scheduled Muslim atrocity....... Gosh, I wonder what horrible and heinous act they've committed today in the name of Mohamed.

Islam is evil Steve. I know it offends your delicate sensibilities but it's true. Islam in incompatible with everything you stand for, EVERYTHING! Equal rights, a free market, a desire to chart your own path, to believe in the God you want or not, EVERYTHING! Furthermore, I think deep down you don't disagree with me as much as you claim. A storm is coming and the West should be prepared. And the East for that matter.


17trillion: Posted: August 21, 2014 4:01 p.m.

(CNSNews.com) – "The bloc of Muslim nations remained mum Wednesday on the killing of U.S. journalist James Foley by terrorists claiming to act on behalf of Islam and led by a man who – by naming himself “caliph” – lays claim to the mantle of Mohammed.

The Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) posted no statement on either its Arabic or English websites about the death of Foley, whose decapitation featured on a video clip posted online by the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant."


They can't even bring themselves to condemn the beheading of a journalist, not that they enjoy freedom of the press as we do, or freedom of speech, or freedom to protest or freedom of religion or, hell, any freedom at all!


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 21, 2014 4:21 p.m.

They didn't just behead this journalist. They sawed his head off with a knife. A knife.

There is a level of evil here beyond normal. It must be met Israeli-style. 10:1. 10 of them for every one of ours. Either they learn humanity or we make these animals extinct. Their choice.


stevehw: Posted: August 21, 2014 5:28 p.m.

"It must be met Israeli-style. 10:1. 10 of them for every one of ours. Either they learn humanity or we make these animals extinct. Their choice. "

Because that's worked so well at ending the violence in the mid-east.

"...pointing out the supposed Christians do bad things all the time..."
"All the time? According to you, the last time was 5 years ago."

You mean the last time a Christian committed a crime was 5 years ago? Seriously, do you not get my point? That crimes are committed by *all sorts of people* all the time, including Christians, day in and day out.

Do I think groups like ISIL and such are psychopathic? Absolutely. But for the same reason I wouldn't condemn all of Christendom (see how I didn't use the synonym "Christianity", as it seems to confuse some people?) for the violent acts of a few members, I won't condemn other religions similarly.

And as for equal rights, belief in other Gods, etc...I have NO confidence that, given the opportunity to create a "Christian" theocracy here, the results wouldn't be much the same (if considerably less violent).


17trillion: Posted: August 21, 2014 5:42 p.m.

"You mean the last time a Christian committed a crime was 5 years ago?" Nice try Steve. We're talking about people committing crimes in the name of their religion, not people committing crimes who happen to be a member of a religion. It's hardly a subtle distinction but I'm happy to provide it to you using smaller words if necessary. "That crimes are committed by *all sorts of people* all the time, including Christians, day in and day out." Wow, I had no idea. Really? Are you sure? Do you mean, even like now as I type this crimes are being committed? Bu all sorts of people? Ok, for the sake of argument, I'll agree with you. Objection! Irrelevant! "Do I think groups like ISIL and such are psychopathic? Absolutely. But for the same reason I wouldn't condemn all of Christendom (see how I didn't use the synonym "Christianity", as it seems to confuse some people?) for the violent acts of a few members, I won't condemn other religions similarly." Why? A Christian killed an abortion doctor 5 years ago and that is THE latest example you can provide of a Christian killing on behalf of his religion. 1 Christian out of more than a billion 5 years ago! 45 seconds ago, I jest but not much, a Muslim killed someone, a Christian, a fellow Muslim, a Jew, a homosexual, a little girl, someone, in the name of Islam and the Islamic world not only does nothing, but it condones such behavior. You cannot be that shallow to not see what I'm speaking about. You're clearly just arguing because you find my position repulsive, or not I suspect, and just can't bring yourself to admit I have a point. "And as for equal rights, belief in other Gods, etc...I have NO confidence that, given the opportunity to create a "Christian" theocracy here, the results wouldn't be much the same (if considerably less violent)." Hmmmm...and yet there is no evidence of such a thing in 2,000 years of history and Christianity has flourished throughout most of the world. 94% of Mexicans are Christians, so your "confidence" needs a revisit. So on one hand we have your lack of confidence, on the other hand we have, well, reality! Want a few hundred links? Stop digging Steve.... --edited.


17trillion: Posted: August 21, 2014 5:44 p.m.

God I hate the edit function....


stevehw: Posted: August 21, 2014 6:46 p.m.

"and yet there is no evidence of such a thing in 2,000 years of history"

You sure about that?


stevehw: Posted: August 21, 2014 11:12 p.m.

http://www.cair.com/press-center/press-releases/12551-cair-condemns-isis-violence-and-rejects-calls-to-join-extremists-fighting-abroad.html

http://www.mcb.org.uk/not-in-our-name-british-muslims-condemn-the-barbarity-of-isis/

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/07/25/worlds_muslim_leaders_condemn_attacks_on_iraqi_christians/1103410


stevehw: Posted: August 21, 2014 11:19 p.m.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498


ricketzz: Posted: August 22, 2014 9:23 a.m.

Murder is murder. Torture is torture. If you insist on details use the modern word "decapitation". "Behead" sounds like Bible speak. Dissemination of enemy propaganda is not a noble pursuit, for Tucker Carlson or any of the Fox News parade of idiots.


AlwaysRight: Posted: August 22, 2014 11:01 a.m.

What is the modern word for "sawed", ricketzz?

The bottom line is this (and its something liberals will never understand); if your enemy is dead, he can't kill you.


17trillion: Posted: August 22, 2014 11:10 a.m.

"You sure about that?"

In retrospect, no.

Ricketzz, would a like from CNN assuage your addled consciousness?


ricketzz: Posted: August 23, 2014 11:02 a.m.

They are daring us to send more kids for them to shoot at. Stop watching TV. It is making you nuts. Propaganda isn't good for Democracy.


tech: Posted: August 23, 2014 1:28 p.m.

Do you fancy yourself as the Media Director of the Signal, ricketzz? Do you advise avoiding newspapers as well?

Hamas, ISIS: Two sides of the same terror coin

http://nypost.com/2014/08/23/hamas-isis-two-sides-of-the-same-terror-coin/

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/pageone08232014.pdf

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/gaza-militants-execute-18-alleged-collaborators/2014/08/22/84be38b4-99ee-452b-84b3-d9ad7df6b657_story.html


ricketzz: Posted: August 24, 2014 10:19 a.m.

We have equipped 4 stable advanced powers in the region with state of the art weaponry. They all (save for Israel proper) have massive youth unemployment and if the Islamic State is a problem requiring soldiering they should do it.

Newspaper articles do not come equipped with sound effects and menacing minor chords on the synth. They don't hypnotize with the Chyron and the LogoMotion.


ricketzz: Posted: August 25, 2014 10:45 a.m.

If the Turks and the Egyptians and the Israelis and the Saudis can't invest some skin we should quit financing their militaries. They only appear to use the weapons against their political enemies; not existential threats to the region.


ricketzz: Posted: August 25, 2014 10:52 a.m.

Shia Militias are helping the Kurds retake Sunni villages. Freaking Iran is on our side. If Obama wants to blow some minds he'll have a sitdown with Putin and together they might be able to forge something more stable than 1916. btw: NATO is seen by Russia (and others) as the remains of the German Italian Axis.



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