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Schools should educate, not indoctrinate

Posted: June 19, 2014 2:00 a.m.
Updated: June 19, 2014 2:00 a.m.
 

The latest assignment some sixth-grade students got in one of our local schools is “Atrocities committed by our troops in Vietnam.”

That’s the last straw. It’s not education — it’s indoctrination.

Instead of middle school, our grandson is going to be home-schooled in the basics.
Why didn’t our public school substitute American patriotism for atrocities?

This kid didn’t learn about heroes like George Washington at school. He was impressed by the facts that our first president was the only officer to survive an ambush by the French and Indians in the war about 20 years before our Revolutionary War.

In that battle and several others during the Revolution, Washington had horses shot out from under him and bullet holes in his coats. He was never wounded.

There were isolated atrocities in Vietnam, but the fact that the enemy hid among the “friendlies” and used vicious booby traps to maim or kill probably was reason.

Is the goal of Common Core to implant young minds with the myth that America is no better a country than any other country?

 

Comments

ricketzz: Posted: June 19, 2014 10:46 a.m.

If you don't want atrocities committed in your name, stop signing up for these idiotic oil wars.


17trillion: Posted: June 19, 2014 11:33 a.m.

User Removed Comment.


Nitesho: Posted: June 19, 2014 11:42 a.m.

Ricketzz...if only the world was actually as it is in your mind and the mind of most liberals...

Wake up.


philellis: Posted: June 19, 2014 12:29 p.m.

Nitesho, can you really use those two words together in the same sentence?


Socalguy: Posted: June 19, 2014 1:12 p.m.

Teaching anything is indoctrination, whether it's teaching math or football, that is what teaching is, to make the person think the way you want them to.


ohhyaa: Posted: June 19, 2014 1:35 p.m.

Bob I couldn't agree more. Too many "educators" interject their ideology and personal agenda into the curriculum. We don't care about your opinion so don't force it on our kids. Let them become critical thinkers and come up with their own conclusions.




stevehw: Posted: June 19, 2014 4:14 p.m.

"We don't care about your opinion so don't force it on our kids. "

Did U.S. troops commit atrocities during Vietnam, or not?

Seems pretty fact-based to me. Either they did or they didn't, and if they did, then why not address it in history class? Granted, 6th grade might be a tad young to get into it, but at some point, isn't it better if students learn actual facts about wars, and can discuss them?

Whether it's in a history course, or a course on sociology or psychology or what have you...it's probably better to learn what really happened and discuss it than to pretend it never happened at all, wouldn't you say?


17trillion: Posted: June 19, 2014 4:25 p.m.

That would be fine Steve if there was an infinite amount of time to discuss history. I agree there is much to be taught about Vietnam including instances where our behavior was less than noble. However, I think it's a question of prioritization and at least from my perspective, atrocities committed in Vietnam doesn't make the top 1,000 of significant historical events that should be taught. Perhaps a Vietnam specific course in college, but certainly not K-12. There simply isn't enough time.


tech: Posted: June 19, 2014 5:24 p.m.

"Teaching anything is indoctrination…"

indoctrinate |inˈdäktrəˌnāt| verb [ with obj. ]
teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically: broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses.


ohhyaa: Posted: June 19, 2014 6:54 p.m.

Steve I would debate with you but you're just an idiot, in my opinion, and I've got better things to do then try to change your stripes.


therightstuff: Posted: June 20, 2014 12:14 a.m.

indoctrinate |inˈdäktrəˌnāt| verb [ with obj. ]
teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically

Such as the sexual behavior of historical figures as now mandated by the state of California.


ricketzz: Posted: June 20, 2014 10:47 a.m.

You can't teach "war" and leave out the bad parts. Atrocities, PTSD, VA overload, PTSD, unemployable basket cases, etc. It's an all or nothing deal, you don't get to pick and choose. It's all part of the smorgasbord of stupid called modern warfare. Unless we are willing to unapologetically nuke the opponent we should stay out of wars.


LStaedtler: Posted: June 20, 2014 11:15 a.m.

The LTE seems to be a swipe at Common Core standards. However, the LTE reader is not educated enough to know that Common Core does not start until next school year.


Socalguy: Posted: June 20, 2014 1:27 p.m.

What is wrong with teaching kids about attrocities committed by the USA, this is great country, but we are not perfect, we have made some terrible mistakes, (treatment of Native American, slavery, war attrocities). "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”, lets teach our kids the msitakes we have made and maybe, just maybe they will not repeat it.


17trillion: Posted: June 20, 2014 1:40 p.m.

What's wrong with teaching kids how West Virginia left the state of Virginia? What's wrong with teaching kids about Millard Filmore? What's wrong with teaching kids about Lend/Lease? What's wrong with teaching kids......

What's wrong Socalguy is that there isn't enough time to teach kids the most important history let alone the 1000th most important historical event. Someone escalated this event to the "most important" status and something else, something no doubt more important that soldiers behaving criminally in Vietnam, was deleted. Perhaps treatment of Native Americans was deleted? Make no mistake that our countries mistakes are definitely highlighted at the expense, I'm afraid, of our countries accomplishments.


newsreader1965: Posted: June 20, 2014 1:46 p.m.

It has always been my understanding that history is studied to make sure that we repeat the successes and never repeat the mistakes of the past. Both things need to be studied and students need to be exposed to both sides. My children's teachers have done a very good job of this and it allows them to ask questions and explore the good and the bad that has happened in the past. Only when our kids can look at both will they truly grow as citizens. I wish that they spent more time on Social Studies and Science, but the State is telling the school districts what they need to cover. The State is also determining what textbooks can be used in K-8.


tech: Posted: June 20, 2014 7:50 p.m.

I can't speak for the Hart District as my younger sons didn't attend local schools at the time.

However, in LAUSD K-12, 2 of my sons had Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" screened 5+ times over a multiyear time span.

Surely their time could have been spent more productively. --edited.


ohhyaa: Posted: June 21, 2014 10:21 a.m.

I cannot speak to the year long curriculum of this sixth grade class. Perhaps Mr. Comer would like to add some additional insight, but If I take this article at face value and add to it my experiences with my own children and with supervising recent college grads (at work) I am 100% convinced that many educators are attempting to indoctrinate young minds with their ideology and unfortunately that ideology is extremely anti-American.

I would feel more comfortable with this assignment if it was part of a topic plan that started with a conversation such as "is war worth the risks" that broke the class into groups, each assigned to work within the group to come up with their conclusion, then comparing the conclusions with the other groups to gain a class wide concenses. If the teacher felt the class handled the subject with maturity it could progress to the next level with an assignment such as "what could some of those risks include".

If it is true that this "educator" assigned this in an attempt to create an anti-American sentiment, I say they should be subject to immediate deportation. lol. No doubt what side of the fence I stand on.


Indy: Posted: June 21, 2014 5:48 p.m.

Ohhyaa wrote: Steve I would debate with you but you're just an idiot, in my opinion, and I've got better things to do then try to change your stripes.

Indy: Debating forums are for debate . . . changing the minds of strong willed ideologues on either side is never going to happen . . . ever.

As far as public education goes, it’s never going to align with conservative ideology any more than liberal ideology.

But conservatives see anything ‘non-conservative’ as ‘un-American’ and that’s just nonsense.

Thus, the criticism of the ‘mainstream’ news that will never conform to the recitals we see at media outlets like Fox nor will our public education be strictly based on conservative ideology.

So feel free to cite your views but any expectations you have to changing moderates or liberals to the ‘far right’ is wishful thinking . . .


Indy: Posted: June 21, 2014 5:56 p.m.

Socalguy wrote: Teaching anything is indoctrination, whether it's teaching math or football, that is what teaching is, to make the person think the way you want them to.

Indy: I disagree strongly . . . having taught high school I was asked frequently what my political views were and I never told the students.

I was teaching the ‘subject’ matter based on the history and facts . . . and whether that ‘lines up’ to conservative or liberal ideology is just coincidence.

Understandably, the posters at forums like this are ideology motivated and thus are quick to criticize any institution, public or private, that doesn’t map to their beliefs.

In any event, teaching students ‘to think’ is far different that trying to make them think as the teacher.

And indeed, every person has their own beliefs and nobody is completely divorced from them. I preferred to state the pros and cons and let the students ‘make up their own minds’.

The United States while having done some very good things . . . has also done some very stupid things . . . so we’re not perfect.

And while the Founding Fathers are often placed on ‘pedestals’, they were just people trying to do something better . . . but still had their own issues. But thankfully, they did realize that times change and allowed the Constitution to be ‘amended’ based on new knowledge.

Believing the US is perfect isn’t helpful . . . since people aren’t perfect. But striving for something better is perhaps the legacy the Founding Fathers did give us . . . and that’s is a good thing.


Indy: Posted: June 21, 2014 5:58 p.m.

LTE writer: Is the goal of Common Core to implant young minds with the myth that America is no better a country than any other country?

Indy: No.


therightstuff: Posted: June 21, 2014 9:09 p.m.

Indy: """. . . changing the minds of strong willed ideologues on either side is never going to happen . . . ever."""

Spoken by no higher authority.


Indy: Posted: June 21, 2014 10:01 p.m.

Tech wrote: I can't speak for the Hart District as my younger sons didn't attend local schools at the time.However, in LAUSD K-12, 2 of my sons had Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" screened 5+ times over a multiyear time span. Surely their time could have been spent more productively. --edited.

Indy: You mean reading ancient text like the Bible?

I’m sure the ‘science’ imbedded in that document would go a long way to understanding basic climate science . . . not.


tech: Posted: June 22, 2014 2:43 p.m.

Indy: You mean reading ancient text like the Bible?

No. Come to think of it, your posts are the ones that continuously flack dogma.


therightstuff: Posted: June 23, 2014 12:21 a.m.

Tech, have you ever noticed how the global warming disciples on these threads run from Al Gore's documentary? Watching the Three Stooges in school would have been more productive for your kids.


therightstuff: Posted: June 23, 2014 12:23 a.m.

Indy: """I disagree strongly . . . having taught high school I was asked frequently what my political views were and I never told the students."""

Could you pretend that we are your students, too?


philellis: Posted: June 23, 2014 11:03 a.m.

I am sure that they all came away with the idea that he was independent and that he always anwsered a direct question with an intelligent, on point, reply.


ricketzz: Posted: June 25, 2014 9:38 a.m.

President Gore's Oscar winning film had obsolete data and theory before it hit the theaters, such is the nature of the beast. The Hockey Stick is still valid. That was the main point of the movie. For an updated look at what Al predicted see Chasing Ice.

http://www.chasingice.com/


CaptGene: Posted: June 30, 2014 3:10 p.m.

The hockey stick is a hoax.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/403256/global-warming-bombshell/


ricketzz: Posted: July 2, 2014 10:40 a.m.

The author of that study has seen the light. Do you trust him now?

http://www.livescience.com/21980-global-warming-skeptic-turnaround.html


CaptGene: Posted: July 2, 2014 12:25 p.m.

If you had read the past the byline, you would know that Muller didn't author the "study", he was reviewing the work of McIntyre and McKitrick.

I could not find any evidence that Muller has changed his opinion regarding the "hockey stick", or "hokey stick" as I like to call it.


ricketzz: Posted: July 7, 2014 9:31 a.m.

I hope you are magnanimous enough to admit you have overlooked something. Dr. Muller and the Kochs started a scientific study group to once and for all debunk Anthropogenic Global Warming and stop the climate change nonsense. This is the result: http://berkeleyearth.org/

"Some people draw a line segment covering the period 1998 to 2010 and argue that we confirm no temperature change in that period. However, if you did that same exercise back in 1995, and drew a horizontal line through the data for 1980 to 1995, you might have falsely concluded that global warming had stopped back then. This exercise simply shows that the decadal [sic] fluctuations are too large to allow us to make decisive conclusions about long term trends based on close examination of periods as short as 13 to 15 years."


CaptGene: Posted: July 7, 2014 10:45 a.m.

Since we are talking about the hockey stick, I don't see what Muller has to do with it. I presented an article where Muller distilled the work of McIntyre and McKitrick on the total inaccuracy of the hockey stick. To date, I have not found any evidence that Muller has changed his mind on the findings of McIntyre and McKitrick even though he has changed his mind on AGW overall. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

You can't swallow, on faith, all of the stuff that supposedly supports your position. You really need to have a little more skepticism.

Also, enough with changing the subject, the audience here, for the most part, is sharp enough to know when they are being played.



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