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Betty Arenson: Obama remains a question mark

Posted: July 4, 2014 2:00 a.m.
Updated: July 4, 2014 2:00 a.m.
 

Undoubtedly by now you have observed the rather casual manner in which our president responds to each new scandal that pops up — and they do keep popping up.

Just when you think it can’t get any worse, his standard response remains one of following, depending on the timing of the scandal:

1. If it’s a recent event, Obama proclaims that he learned of it where and when you did: the newspaper. Therefore, he hasn’t had time to garner any additional facts; or

2. If it’s been around for a while, Obama’s standard response is that it’s under investigation, he’ll get to the bottom of it and, as a consequence, he can’t talk about it; or

3. If it’s been around for some time, the response is that it’s old news and, anyway, “there’s no ‘there’ there.”

Keep in mind that it’s Obama’s handlers who define what the timing is, old or new, and if anyone dare question any part of the events then that person or body is partisan, on a witch hunt trying to make political hay, the old fallback “racist.” or “what difference does it make?”

All of this begs asking: who is this guy? Is this unrelenting torrent of scandal the result of an extraordinary degree of incompetence?

Or is he intentionally inflicting this pain on our country, i.e., is he dumb or diabolical — and, if he is diabolical, toward what end?

These aren’t new questions.

In the onslaught of publicity with Obama’s first election in 2008, the nature and depth of his connections to some very unsavory characters like Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Rashid Khalidi, etc., were questioned by the “fringe” media (the mainstream media was too much in his thrall to go there).

It is well documented that these anti-Americans had a collective goal: to diminish America. They were quite vocal about their hatred of America.

Most unfortunately, “low” is where Obama has brought us in his apparent efforts to prove that our country is not “exceptional.”

America is brought down by Obama’s perpetual action of “leading from behind,” or, as a friend of mine characterized his posture, “leading with your behind.”

He never seems to be in front of the curve; always a day, a week or months behind it that is to the extent he appears to be aware of it at all.

After the horse is well out of the barn, he makes some elaborate gesture to close the door.

Take, for example, the red line in the case of Syrian chemical weapons. That particular “red line” situation was a destructive one — especially for America. There are multiple reasons why.

Obama drew his red line in August 2012. Syria tested that red line often in the year after, culminating in August 2013 when undeniably another 1,300 people died from Syria’s chemical gases.

Obama punted and days later he double-downed at the G20 Summit in Sweden and pronounced to the world from the podium, “I didn’t set a red line. The world set a red line.”

With that lie, he solidified to a fact any question or guess the world may have had about America’s lack of leadership, lack of grit, lack of keeping our word. He removed any doubt of whether or not America is an ally to be trusted.

Putin stood his ground in protecting Syria, knowing he would be unfettered bulldozing into the Crimea and now onto the Ukraine.

All of which brings us back to the question of who is Barack Obama?

You’ll recall the fanfare that accompanied his run for the 2008 presidency, hailed as the “Messiah” and “The One.”

Our first black president who would, once and for all, promote putting the sin of slavery behind us and move forward to realize Martin Luther King Jr.’s vision of a color-blind society.

Obama was to be a healer of nations and people.

Tragically, nothing could be farther from the truth; America is more embroiled in racial discussions today than at any time I can recall, not to mention the gender and class upheavals.

After an early 2012 Rolling Stone interview with Obama wherein he denied (to the surprise of many) that “race” was on his presidential to-do list, black activist Ward Connerly said, “We are not living in a post-racial society. We are living in a most-racial society.”

Not one part of the “who” question is a race thing; it’s an American thing.

Betty Arenson is a Valencia resident, has lived in the Santa Clarita Valley since 1968 and is active in a local Republican club.

 

Comments

Nitesho: Posted: July 4, 2014 9:14 a.m.

No one cares what you think. You're a hypocrite. All high on American yet drive foreign cars. Such a joke.


ricketzz: Posted: July 4, 2014 9:49 a.m.

The only people I've heard describe President Obama as a Messiah are the right wing talkers Limbaugh and Hannity. Nobody I know thought his election would mean anything about race.

Racists are the people who keep bringing this up. Colorblind people can get past the race thing and govern.


BrianBaker: Posted: July 4, 2014 9:59 a.m.

Funny, ricketzz, but it's your ObaMessiah who keeps bringing it up. As late as just last week.


tech: Posted: July 4, 2014 10:56 a.m.

Poll: Obama worst president since WWII

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/poll-obama-worst-president-since-wwii-108507.html


projalice11: Posted: July 4, 2014 11:58 a.m.

"Happy 4th of July"


tech: Posted: July 4, 2014 12:23 p.m.

It is for those who love our country and celebrate independence rather than dependence, projalice11.


hepnerkid: Posted: July 4, 2014 12:26 p.m.

The usual suspects are back in play. That obama is a fool and incompetent is not up for question any more. His actions every day speak volumes about his lack of character and his overall bad judgement. He does a disservice to the American people, however there are many out there that think this what they want. It is interesting that so many people can be abused by an individual and come back for more. Hit me again.


Nitesho: Posted: July 4, 2014 12:31 p.m.

Oh I'm no fan of Obama. I just dislike the gas bag Betty even more. She's the Nancy Pelosi of the Republican Party. And I dare say, that's an insult to Nancy.


projalice11: Posted: July 4, 2014 2:12 p.m.

Congress remains the question and the problem of the United States***

It is Congress that does a disservice to the American People***


Nitesho: Posted: July 4, 2014 2:40 p.m.

Bingo lady,

And by congress you're including the senate? The same senate that didn't pass a budget for 5 years? The same senate that help take the deficit to doubt its size in 5 years?that senate?

Because when you say congress, that includes both the House of Representatives and the senate so really you are milaning both...but of course you knew that.

I'm sure you meant to say just the house so it fits your narrative.... --edited.


Indy: Posted: July 4, 2014 4:33 p.m.

Excellent recital of RNC talking points . . . none of which solve anything . . .


tech: Posted: July 4, 2014 5:37 p.m.

The poll I cited isn't a "talking point", Indy.

The upcoming midterm election and the end of Obama's term will present opportunities for solutions.

11/4/14®


therightstuff: Posted: July 4, 2014 9:39 p.m.

You have some interesting opinions Indy...none of which solve anything...


Indy: Posted: July 4, 2014 11:02 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: You have some interesting opinions Indy...none of which solve anything...

Indy: Are you plagiarizing me? Naw . . .

But anyway for a true Obama hater, this one’s for you!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-jobs-report-20140704-story.html
U.S. ADDS 288,000 JOBS IN JUNE
Unemployment rate falls to 6.1%, the lowest it’s been in nearly six years.
BY DON LEE AND TIFFANY HSU


WASHINGTON — Five years after the recession, the job market is finally hitting stride as small businesses add workers and local governments restore battered payrolls.

U.S. employers added a robust 288,000 jobs in June across a broad spectrum of businesses, the Labor Department said Thursday. The growth flew past analysts’ forecasts and marked the fifth straight month of payroll gains in excess of 200,000 — a hiring spree not seen since the 1990s tech boom.

The unemployment rate, which has fallen surprisingly fast lately, dropped to 6.1% in June from 6.3% in May. Both the jobless rate and the number of officially unemployed, totaling 9.5 million last month, are the lowest in nearly six years. As recently as November, the nation’s unemployment figure was 7%.


therightstuff: Posted: July 4, 2014 11:49 p.m.

From the exact same article posted by our resident Obama loyalist:

"""President Obama, who has rarely touted the monthly job numbers in his second term, hailed the report Thursday as a sign of the "enormous strides" made since the recession."""

Translation: When the numbers suck, Obama plays down the reports as irrelevant. If the numbers are good, he crows this is proof of "enormous strides".

Honestly, does anyone believe Obama any more except for his shameless wh0res?

Also, Obama predicted the unemployment rate would hit 6.1% in the first quarter of 2012 if we borrowed almost another trillion dollars for his stimulus scheme. He missed it by ***TWO YEARS***.

Can you imagine how bad it would be if the GOP hadn't been limiting the damage by Obama for the last three years?


philellis: Posted: July 4, 2014 11:51 p.m.

An anonymous wind bag can't be plagiarized


tech: Posted: July 5, 2014 1:11 a.m.

"WASHINGTON — Five years after the recession, the job market is finally hitting stride as small businesses add workers and local governments restore battered payrolls."

LOL! Really? The overall labor-force participation rate didn’t change at all from May to June, leaving it stuck at the lowest level in four decades.

June Full-Time Jobs Plunge By Over Half A Million, Part-Time Jobs Surge By 800K, Most Since 1993

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-03/june-full-time-jobs-plunge-over-half-million-part-time-jobs-surge-800k-most-1993

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Hmm… what could be causing the drop in full time employment and the surge in the part time variant?


therightstuff: Posted: July 5, 2014 9:32 a.m.

Just more "out of context-ideology driven-focus group tested-DNC talking points" from Indy to deflect the barrage of scandals now plaguing his leader.

Obama has a long way to go to reach the 4.6% unemployment rate which is where it was the day the Democrats took over both Houses of Congress in January of 2007. After 18 months of Democrats running the country, the economy crashed.


Nitesho: Posted: July 5, 2014 12:45 p.m.

Indy is right though. Betty can't have an original thought and just vomits the RNC talking points on its keyboard. Regardless of facts, he's correct. --edited.


Indy: Posted: July 5, 2014 6:36 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: From the exact same article posted by our resident Obama loyalist:

"""President Obama, who has rarely touted the monthly job numbers in his second term, hailed the report Thursday as a sign of the "enormous strides" made since the recession."""

Translation: When the numbers suck, Obama plays down the reports as irrelevant. If the numbers are good, he crows this is proof of "enormous strides". Honestly, does anyone believe Obama any more except for his shameless wh0res?

Indy: Gee, when Obama does what you and Fox do, you get your panties in bunch!!!!

Therightstuff wrote: Also, Obama predicted the unemployment rate would hit 6.1% in the first quarter of 2012 if we borrowed almost another trillion dollars for his stimulus scheme. He missed it by ***TWO YEARS***.

Indy: Yes, after Bush W following your conservative principles ‘cut the stock market in half’ and lost more than 5 million jobs . . . while placing the US in the deepest recession since the depression, and you want to argue for austerity, ignore Keynesian economics and thus place the US in a depression? Wow . . .

Therightstuff wrote: Can you imagine how bad it would be if the GOP hadn't been limiting the damage by Obama for the last three years?

Indy: In don’t have to imagine what the GOP did . . . but can ‘see’ that Obama brought the economy back and now is seeing a stock market over 17,000!!!

You conservative policies are failing Americans . . . and you simply can’t admit it . . .


Indy: Posted: July 5, 2014 6:39 p.m.

Tech wrote: "WASHINGTON — Five years after the recession, the job market is finally hitting stride as small businesses add workers and local governments restore battered payrolls."

LOL! Really? The overall labor-force participation rate didn’t change at all from May to June, leaving it stuck at the lowest level in four decades.

Indy: Yes, Obama wouldn’t have been placed into this reality without the GOP crashing the economy in 2007 . . . letting Obama see a ‘free fall’ in job losses . . . that were about 750,000 in the last month of the Bush W administration.

Then, magically, and that’s more or less what ideology is, it was all ‘Obama’s fault on 1/1/2009!

Your credibility is falling about as fast as the job market was in 2008 . . .


Indy: Posted: July 5, 2014 6:43 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: Just more "out of context-ideology driven-focus group tested-DNC talking points" from Indy to deflect the barrage of scandals now plaguing his leader.

Indy: Does anyone here actually believe anything this guy writes?

Stock market over 17,000 . . . under Obamacare no doubt!!!!

And recovery of all the lost jobs from Bush W!

Therightstuff wrote: Obama has a long way to go to reach the 4.6% unemployment rate which is where it was the day the Democrats took over both Houses of Congress in January of 2007. After 18 months of Democrats running the country, the economy crashed.

Indy: And here’s where the poster’s ‘economic ignorance’ shines in all its glory!!!

I’ve already discussed how this guy can’t grasp the context of economic statistics and just ‘blindly’ recites them.

We just can’t afford as a nation to listen to such nonsense . . . there’s plenty of information published that shows the actual context of the 2007 crash . . . including Bush W’s Council of Economic Advisors ‘lying’ to the public telling them that there will be growth in 2008!


tech: Posted: July 5, 2014 7:04 p.m.

"Your credibility is falling about as fast as the job market was in 2008 . . . " - Indy

Speaking of credibility, your assertions are buffoonish considering we're 5 years into the recovery from the recession, Indy.

Here's another set of inconvenient facts to counter your economic illiteracy:

North Carolina Got It Right on Unemployment Benefits
Unemployment in the Tar Heel State dropped by 17% in the second half of 2013 after extended benefits expired.

A year ago, North Carolina became the first state in the nation to exit the federal government's extended-benefits program for the unemployed. Facing the prospect of job-killing hikes in payroll taxes to pay back Washington, Gov. Pat McCrory and the state legislature instead reduced the amount and duration of unemployment-insurance benefits, which had been higher in North Carolina than in most states. As a result the state lost its eligibility to participate in the extended-benefits program on July 1, 2013.

National media and liberal activists pounced. Citing the decision and several other "outrages" by the state's first Republican-led government since Reconstruction—such as adopting a pro-growth flat tax, clearing out the state's regulatory thicket, and rejecting ObamaCare's Medicaid expansion—left-wing critics subjected the Tar Heel State to months of invective and ridicule.

Within the state, the so-called Moral Monday movement drew thousands of protesters to the capital on a nearly weekly basis. Hundreds of arrests were made for violating the rules of the state's Legislative Building. Outside the state, liberal media outlets excoriated North Carolina for ending extended benefits. New York Times columnist Paul Krugman called it a "war on the unemployed." Even some conservative columnists and policy analysts criticized the decision as unwise and inconsistent with the principles of their new "reform conservatism" movement.

North Carolina didn't descend into the Dickensian nightmare critics predicted. For the last six months of 2013, it was the only state where jobless recipients weren't eligible for extended benefits. Yet during that period North Carolina had one of the nation's largest improvements in labor-market performance and overall economic growth.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of payroll jobs in North Carolina rose by 1.5% in the second half of 2013, compared with a 0.8% rise for the nation as a whole. Total unemployment in the state dropped by 17%, compared with the national average drop of 12%. The state's official unemployment rate fell to 6.9% in December 2013 from 8.3% in June, while the nationwide rate fell by eight-tenths of a point to 6.7%.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/john-hood-north-carolina-got-it-right-on-unemployment-benefits-1404509638


therightstuff: Posted: July 5, 2014 10:38 p.m.

Indy: """In don’t have to imagine what the GOP did . . . but can ‘see’ that Obama brought the economy back and now is seeing a stock market over 17,000!!!"""

Let's try to follow Indy's partisan logic.

When the Democrats ran the House for nearly two years leading up to the stock market crash, they put 100% of the blame on Bush.

When the Republicans ran the House for three years leading up to the stock market exceeding 17,000, they give 100% of the credit to Obama.

It's one thing to be ignorant, it's quite another to be willfully ignorant for the sake of far-left ideology. Poor hapless Indy. When I'm not laughing I truly feel sorry for such a lost soul.


therightstuff: Posted: July 5, 2014 10:50 p.m.

More Indy: """there’s plenty of information published that shows the actual context of the 2007 crash . . ."""

Yes, there's no shortage of far-left blogs from morons who despised Bush. This is what passes for "information" for Obama loyalists. Remember, this is the same poster who kept hawking the 99 cent pamphlet from disgraced hyper-partisan David Brock about Benghazi. This poster's latest link is from a guy who describes himself as a "web designer from Michigan".

Democrat wh0res think if it's on the internet, it must be true. What an embarrassing joke.


Indy: Posted: July 5, 2014 11:35 p.m.

tech wrote: "Your credibility is falling about as fast as the job market was in 2008 . . . " - Indy

Speaking of credibility, your assertions are buffoonish considering we're 5 years into the recovery from the recession, Indy.

Indy: I’m not surprised by your economic ignorance . . . or your biased approach to just about everything that doesn’t map to your libertarian market fundamentalism.

Many conservatives of course criticize Obama for not having the recovery fast enough . . . yet the conservative’s policies both past and present are dismal at best.

If conservatives were as adept at economics as you lead on . . . why did Bush W crash the economy?

Why did the hole so deep and then blame the new president?

Likewise, during a deep recession, going to austerity would have only made the recession worse . . . who in their right mind would want to do that?

As far as all this job killing nonsense . . . and that’s exactly what it is on the surface . . . the only reason we have extended unemployment for many Americans is the globalization effect where multinational corporations are off shoring jobs to leverage the wage differential for high off shore profits that don’t employ Americans.

This is the problem you have with understanding basic economics and simply posting some off the wall article that doesn’t address these factors.

In any event, the US is recovering as the recent disclose of the additional 288,000 jobs ‘nationally’ . . . but the damage done to ‘hard working’ people from the deep recession Bush W put in the nation is . . . isn’t helped by shortening unemployment benefits ‘nationally’. And certainly, one state isn’t the nation.

Eye hoop thes hellps u . . .


Indy: Posted: July 5, 2014 11:43 p.m.

therightstuff wrote: Indy: """In don’t have to imagine what the GOP did . . . but can ‘see’ that Obama brought the economy back and now is seeing a stock market over 17,000!!!"""

Let's try to follow Indy's partisan logic.

Indy: And let’s be careful here the poster doesn’t shove his ignorance down our throats . . .

therightstuff wrote: When the Democrats ran the House for nearly two years leading up to the stock market crash, they put 100% of the blame on Bush.

Indy: Yes, the simple minded might accept this talking point but the reality is the damage done to the housing and financial markets were already in place before the crash.

And we know that Bush W had the power of the veto.

It’s great to push the burden ‘after the fact’ but Bush W had both houses of congress for 6 YEARS and just watched the ‘bubbles’ and real estate expand and do nothing.

therightstuff wrote: When the Republicans ran the House for three years leading up to the stock market exceeding 17,000, they give 100% of the credit to Obama.

Indy: Well, he republicans did some stuff:

- they forced ‘tax cuts’ into the stimulus bill that accounted for about 33% of it and economist know that tax cuts in recessions don’t work
- the House has done nothing per see to address any jobs bills
- the Senate republicans have filibustered more bills that any senate prior to
- the House did less bills than any house before it

Is there what you’re referring to?

therightstuff wrote: It's one thing to be ignorant, it's quite another to be willfully ignorant for the sake of far-left ideology. Poor hapless Indy. When I'm not laughing I truly feel sorry for such a lost soul.

Indy: Your economic ignorance and incompetence by trivializing the context of economics is why conservatives have placed us into this mess.

I’m trying to help you from embarrassing yourself further but like Tech, you’re falling faster than the stock market crash under Bush W.


Indy: Posted: July 5, 2014 11:54 p.m.

therightstuff wrote: More Indy: """there’s plenty of information published that shows the actual context of the 2007 crash . . ."""

Yes, there's no shortage of far-left blogs from morons who despised Bush. This is what passes for "information" for Obama loyalists. Remember, this is the same poster who kept hawking the 99 cent pamphlet from disgraced hyper-partisan David Brock about Benghazi. This poster's latest link is from a guy who describes himself as a "web designer from Michigan".

Indy: Yes, anyone that ‘dare’ expose the weaknesses of conservative ideology is naturally considered by you, an economic illiterate, to be a moron . . .

Out of curiosity, what is your education background? Did you graduate high school? Any college?

That’s your greatest weakness . . . you’re self-absorbed into a conservative media blitz of nonsense which you recite here . . .

And understandably, when your ignorance overwhelms you, you start calling people names like your in kindergarten . . . why not just grow up?

Most of what you write is irrelevant and shows a depth and breath of economic ignorance that most high school students would laugh at . . .

Yet you persist in grandstanding your ignorance here . . .

I feel sad for you . . .

In any event, there are plenty of books by authors of every type that explain why the financial malfeasance by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan (fined billions), Countrywide Financial (fined hundreds of millions), that go far beyond the ‘far-left blogs . . . trying getting your head out of Fox and you’ll begin to see a world that you didn’t even know exists . . .


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 12:28 a.m.

As a follow on to my prior post and recognizing Indy's constant flacking for "emergency" extension of unemployment benefits again, this:

Krauthammer’s Take: Conservatives Won the Unemployment Debate

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/381985/krauthammers-take-conservatives-won-unemployment-debate-nro-staff


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 12:58 a.m.

"…the House has done nothing per see (sic) to address any jobs bills" - Indy

The House has passed 40+ jobs bills that have died in the Senate. You can't send a bill to the President's desk if there's no vote.


stray: Posted: July 6, 2014 4:02 a.m.

@Indy -

I have followed you around on these boards for quite a while... You NEVER have a negative word to say about the inept Obozo himself. Face it, you adore the loser! But, you never hesitated to bash Bush over and over, including the military process which captured terrorists went thru while interrogating them to get vital information. People back then told you to put down the Kool-Aid, and you didn't. Then, on another thread about Obozocare, you jumped right on it raving about it while ignoring the skyrocketing premiums that people would have to pay! People, again told you to put down the Kool-Aid, and you didn't. Now, on this thread, you're getting hammered by posters and you still won't change your twisted rationale.

So just put down the Kool-Aid Indy...


therightstuff: Posted: July 6, 2014 10:22 a.m.

Nice try stray but facts bounce off the "Indy" one. If you could prove the IRS purposely targeted political groups opposed to Obama, this guy STILL wouldn't believe it.

How do we know? Because the IRS ***ADMITTED IT*** and he STILL doesn't believe it. What's worse, he blames Republicans for it. It's this level of partisan idiocy that is ruining our country. --edited.


therightstuff: Posted: July 6, 2014 10:31 a.m.

Indy: """Yes, the simple minded might accept this talking point but the reality is the damage done to the housing and financial markets were already in place before the crash."""

Soooooo....when the Barney Frank ran the housing market into the ground and Chris Dodd ruined the financial markets...it was ALL THE REPUBLICAN'S FAULT!!!

And when Lois Lerner and her IRS minions targeted groups opposed to Obama and then reported their computers all crashed 10 days into the investigation...it was ALL THE REPUBLICAN'S FAULT!!!

Geez...talk about simple minded.


therightstuff: Posted: July 6, 2014 10:39 a.m.

No wait...more Indy.

"""And understandably, when your ignorance overwhelms you, you start calling people names like your in kindergarten . . . why not just grow up?"""

Says the same guy who asked if I graduated high school in the same post. Does the hypocrisy EVER end for this guy?

He whines daily about Fox News but when asked to cite a single example of factual inaccuracy, he refuses to do it but just heaps on personal insults.

He also claims my posts are irrelevant and yet he can't resist responding to every single one of them. What does that say about his own intellect?







tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 12:15 p.m.

Q: "What does that say about his own intellect?"

A: It is defective.


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 1:29 p.m.

"And we know that Bush W had the power of the veto.

It’s great to push the burden ‘after the fact’ but Bush W had both houses of congress for 6 YEARS and just watched the ‘bubbles’ and real estate expand and do nothing." - Story Time with Indy

2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity." (2002 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 142)

2002

May: The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in the President's 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market.

September: Then-Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis … The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03)

October: Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)

November: Then-Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

(cont.)


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 1:30 p.m.

2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital and calls for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore … should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: Then-CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

April: Rep. Frank ignores the warnings, accusing the Administration of creating an "artificial issue." At a speech to the Mortgage Bankers Association conference, Rep. Frank said "people tend to pay their mortgages. I don't think we are in any remote danger here. This focus on receivership, I think, is intended to create fears that aren't there." ("Frank: GSE Failure A Phony Issue," American Banker, 4/21/04)

June: Then-Treasury Deputy Secretary Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and calls for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America … Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)

July: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)

(cont.)


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 1:32 p.m.

2007

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, the White House, 8/9/07)

August: Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd ignores the President's warnings and calls on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," The New York Times, 8/11/07)

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07)

2008

February: Assistant Treasury Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, saying "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

(cont.)


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 1:32 p.m.

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow state housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)

"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)

"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.

September: Democrats in Congress forget their previous objections to GSE reforms, as Senator Dodd questions "why weren't we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there were any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem? … I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years." (Dawn Kopecki, "Fannie Mae, Freddie 'House Of Cards' Prompts Takeover," Bloomberg, 9/9/08)


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 1:44 p.m.

Barney Frank didn't believe a housing bubble existed and argued for continued government subsidy. He obviously didn't understand that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were bundling mortgages as securities.

Said Barney Frank on September 25, 2003: "I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhxzNX738s


Nitesho: Posted: July 6, 2014 2:01 p.m.

Tech. Stop using facts on people like Indy, bingo lady, Stevehw and that stupid, ignorant troll Betty, the "author" of this trash..

They don't care about facts, only what fits their narrative.


Indy: Posted: July 6, 2014 6:45 p.m.

Tech wrote: "…the House has done nothing per see (sic) to address any jobs bills" - Indy

The House has passed 40+ jobs bills that have died in the Senate. You can't send a bill to the President's desk if there's no vote.

Indy: Why not note that the majority of not all the ‘jobs’ bills produced in the House are really just more ‘tax cuts’ for the higher income earners?

And the outcome of such bills only tends to concentrate wealth?

But please, let us have a sample of the ones you’re referencing.


Indy: Posted: July 6, 2014 6:51 p.m.

Stray wrote: I have followed you around on these boards for quite a while... You NEVER have a negative word to say about the inept Obozo himself. Face it, you adore the loser!

Indy: Yes, you’re listening to the conservatives here that like to recite their beliefs but more often than not, they don’t read my posts.

In any event, Obama is more or the less the standard politician.

He, for example, during his SOTU speech, promised Americans ‘unlimited growth’ on a ‘fixed rock in space’.

Do you agree with Obama on this?

Stray wrote: But, you never hesitated to bash Bush over and over, including the military process which captured terrorists went thru while interrogating them to get vital information.

Indy: The results of torture is not clear but I don’t endorse torture.

We executive Japanese soldiers that ‘water boarded’ Americans in WW2.

Do you agree with that action?

Stray wrote: People back then told you to put down the Kool-Aid, and you didn't. Then, on another thread about Obozocare, you jumped right on it raving about it while ignoring the skyrocketing premiums that people would have to pay!

Indy: The premiums for health care have been increasing independent of the ACA . . .

Stray wrote: People, again told you to put down the Kool-Aid, and you didn't. Now, on this thread, you're getting hammered by posters and you still won't change your twisted rationale.

Indy: I can understand your ‘pat on the back’ approach to the conservatives here that spout their ideology and understandably, when such ideology is shown to be failing, they don’t like it.

In any event, I like Diet Coke.


Indy: Posted: July 6, 2014 6:57 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: Nice try stray but facts bounce off the "Indy" one. If you could prove the IRS purposely targeted political groups opposed to Obama, this guy STILL wouldn't believe it.

How do we know? Because the IRS ***ADMITTED IT*** and he STILL doesn't believe it. What's worse, he blames Republicans for it. It's this level of partisan idiocy that is ruining our country. --edited.

Indy: Again, just simply answer these questions:

- Why do conservatives vote to underfund the IRS when it’s asked to perform expanded duties?

- And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?

The reason why you don’t answer them is why republicans like to spout rhetoric but take no responsibility for their positions and the consequences of their actions.

Americans don’t want donors hiding their contributions and abusing our tax code.

They don’t like abusing 501C4s charter for a non-profit especially when partisan political money is being laundered through these.


Indy: Posted: July 6, 2014 7:00 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: Indy: """Yes, the simple minded might accept this talking point but the reality is the damage done to the housing and financial markets were already in place before the crash."""

Soooooo....when the Barney Frank ran the housing market into the ground and Chris Dodd ruined the financial markets...it was ALL THE REPUBLICAN'S FAULT!!!

Indy: Do you mean the huge fines against JP Morgan and Countrywide Financial are because they did nothing wrong in defrauding borrowers?

Do you still support ‘red lining’ for qualified borrowers?

Therightstuff wrote: And when Lois Lerner and her IRS minions targeted groups opposed to Obama and then reported their computers all crashed 10 days into the investigation...it was ALL THE REPUBLICAN'S FAULT!!!

Indy: Please, just give us the link that shows this ’10 day’ window . . .


Indy: Posted: July 6, 2014 7:05 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: """And understandably, when your ignorance overwhelms you, you start calling people names like your in kindergarten . . . why not just grow up?"""

Says the same guy who asked if I graduated high school in the same post. Does the hypocrisy EVER end for this guy?

Indy: You assert you have economic knowledge but your posts show otherwise.

Did you graduate from high school? Any college?

Therightstuff wrote: He whines daily about Fox News but when asked to cite a single example of factual inaccuracy, he refuses to do it but just heaps on personal insults.

Indy: I suggest anyone watch Fox and see for themselves . . . and be sure to check their ‘innuendo and speculations’ against the actual reality.

Therightstuff wrote: He also claims my posts are irrelevant and yet he can't resist responding to every single one of them. What does that say about his own intellect?

I just ‘clarity’ your inaccuracies . . . after all, somebody has to do it . . . and it’s important people understand that much of what you write is nothing more than recitals of conservative ideology that we can ‘see’ isn’t helping Americans with their economic and national security.

If you want to be taken seriously, stop reciting nonsense . . . I can’t make it any simpler than that for you . . . and as always, I’m here to help you understand basic business, economics, and management.

Finally, why not just go to a ‘like mind’ conservative site where you can chat comfortably with your fellow conservatives? When you recite nonsense here, you’ll be held accountable.


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 7:38 p.m.

"When you recite nonsense here, you’ll be held accountable." - Indy

Self-awareness?


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 7:40 p.m.

"I just ‘clarity’ (sic) your inaccuracies . . . " - Indy

You just can't makes this stuff up! Very entertaining!


tech: Posted: July 6, 2014 8:10 p.m.

"Indy: Why not note that the majority of not all the ‘jobs’ bills produced in the House are really just more ‘tax cuts’ for the higher income earners?

And the outcome of such bills only tends to concentrate wealth?

But please, let us have a sample of the ones you’re referencing." - Indy

Why? Because that's the jabbering of an ideologue that makes baseless assertions. In reality, you know little to zero about pending legislation. That's why you're asking me to spoon feed it to you instead of looking it up yourself.


therightstuff: Posted: July 6, 2014 11:17 p.m.

Indy: """Please, just give us the link that shows this ’10 day’ window . . ."""

I love it when Indy demands evidence of everyone else and then punts when the same is asked of him. The window I'm referring to lasted 18 months from the time Democrats took over both Houses of Congress to the crash of the economy. Normal people assign blame to both parties. Worthless partisans insist it was entirely the fault of George Bush!



More Indy: """Why do conservatives vote to underfund the IRS when it’s asked to perform expanded duties?"""

There is plenty of money for the IRS to do their 'regular duties' as required by law. We now know that the ***extra duties*** was targeting conservative groups opposed to Barack Obama. Why would conservatives vote to give extra money for such disgraceful activities? Normal people want to know WHO asked the IRS to perform these expanded duties. Useless Democrat wh0res just blame Republicans.




Oh no, MORE Indy: """And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?"""

Barack Obama said he was 'outraged', he had 'no patience' with this, people would be 'held accountable' and this would be 'fixed'. Boehner is waiting for Obama to make good on his promise. So far....nothing from the White House.



And now see how Indy answered MY question when asked to provide ***ONE*** example of how Fox News has been factually inaccurate in their reporting:

INDY: """I suggest anyone watch Fox and see for themselves . . ."""

This guy is truly academically bankrupt.



stray: Posted: July 7, 2014 1:36 a.m.

"Obama was to be a healer of nations and people"

Oh, that's interesting! He did indeed profess to bring America back into the limelight where we would communicate with foreign leaders and be respected once again. So, this is how Putin see it...

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, sh*ts on the board and then struts around like it won the game."

~Vladimir Putin


ricketzz: Posted: July 7, 2014 8:49 a.m.

The 2007 collapse could have been predicated by the popping of any bubble; housing was the one that did it. We have learned nothing. More bubbles. I pray constantly that this whole mirage of "civilization" collapses so people can see the monster they have been serving for a thousand years, all naked and powerless.


tech: Posted: July 7, 2014 12:46 p.m.

"I pray constantly that this whole mirage of "civilization" collapses…" - ricketzz

An honest statement of what you're about. I find it refreshing among the subset of non-rational posters in this forum.


stray: Posted: July 7, 2014 1:37 p.m.

@tech - "I pray constantly that this whole mirage of "civilization" collapses…" - ricketzz

An honest statement of what you're about.

You have that absolutely correct tech! To describe ricketzz easily, he would be considered a pessimistic imbecile. Almost every thread he posts on, he gets flack about his senseless rhetoric. I've always stated that I enjoy people's opinions, but his aren't opinions - they are always negative comments, and he never contributes anything positive...

Ricketzz reminds me of Bill Ayers.


tech: Posted: July 7, 2014 1:51 p.m.

More illumination:

ricketzz:Posted: June 7, 20147:06 a.m.

Tech has no faith in this country nor its Founding Principles. He accuses me of being antisocial while condemning one of humanity's greatest experiments. Perhaps we are more alike than it seems. I don't think Jeffersonian Democracy scales infinitely. What worked for 30,000,000 farmers is not working for 300,000,000 service sector slaves. Totalitarian methods must be used, in lieu of an objective press and an educated electorate, to maintain order.

A New World Order is what they called it, as I recall. I call it The Bubble.


tech: Posted: July 7, 2014 1:54 p.m.

What are your thoughts on the Cloward–Piven Strategy, ricketzz?


Indy: Posted: July 7, 2014 5:29 p.m.

Tech wrote: "Indy: Why not note that the majority of not all the ‘jobs’ bills produced in the House are really just more ‘tax cuts’ for the higher income earners?

And the outcome of such bills only tends to concentrate wealth?

But please, let us have a sample of the ones you’re referencing." - Indy

Why? Because that's the jabbering of an ideologue that makes baseless assertions. In reality, you know little to zero about pending legislation. That's why you're asking me to spoon feed it to you instead of looking it up yourself.

Indy: Which republican job bills didn’t include tax cuts for higher income tax payers?

You assert that number . . . so you must be familiar.

And if you can’t defend you’re assertions, then you’re just blowing partisan smoke . . .

In any event, here’s a link with some of the bills: http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/gops-claim-house-passed-30-jobs-bills-bogus

And I like the first comment who reviewed the bills:

“A couple of months ago a heard that claim about 28 "jobs bills" and looked them up, here was my summary:
-18 of them reduce or eliminate government regulations in nearly every business sector, especially of energy and pollution
-6 give more tax breaks to the same big businesses that are sitting on record profits and not hiring people right now.”


Indy: Posted: July 7, 2014 5:41 p.m.

You’ve got to give therightstuff poster credit for not addressing these questions:

- Why do conservatives vote to underfund the IRS when it’s asked to perform expanded duties?

- And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?

And even understand the consequences of same.

Reciting RNC talking points solves nothing . . . but let’s discuss the more classic responses:

Therightstuff wrote: Normal people assign blame to both parties. Worthless partisans insist it was entirely the fault of George Bush!

Indy: Notice the poster for the entire term of Obama has ‘blamed him’ yet now blames anyone using reciprocal logic. In any event, Bush W had 6 years of control of both houses and just set the foundation for ‘bubbles’ that blew up before he left office . . .

Therightstuff wrote: There is plenty of money for the IRS to do their 'regular duties' as required by law.

Indy: Notice no substantiation for the assertion . . . yet we can ‘see’ the consequences of the failure for the underfunding. That’s why I like to know the educational background of conservatives here to see if they possess any knowledge in business, economic, or management.

Did the poster graduate high school? Does he possess a college degree? He won’t say . . .

Therightstuff wrote: Oh no, MORE Indy: """And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?"""

Barack Obama said he was 'outraged', he had 'no patience' with this, people would be 'held accountable' and this would be 'fixed'. Boehner is waiting for Obama to make good on his promise. So far....nothing from the White House.

Indy: Gee . . . sad this poster didn’t take civics back in high school . . . if he attended . . . to grasp that congress pass the laws!!!

In any event, House republicans are failing the American public. They simply refuse to do what they are charged with doing . . . and now Boehner wants to get even farther away from his responsibly and create yet another distraction.

But at least he’s got this poster convinced . . .


Indy: Posted: July 7, 2014 5:44 p.m.

Stray wrote: I have followed you around on these boards for quite a while... You NEVER have a negative word to say about the inept Obozo himself. Face it, you adore the loser!

Indy: Yes, you’re listening to the conservatives here that like to recite their beliefs but more often than not, they don’t read my posts.

In any event, Obama is more or the less the standard politician.

He, for example, during his SOTU speech, promised Americans ‘unlimited growth’ on a ‘fixed rock in space’.

Do you agree with Obama on this?

Well????


therightstuff: Posted: July 7, 2014 5:53 p.m.

INDY: """I just ‘clarity’ your inaccuracies"""

Yes, I also caught the hilarious irony of Indy's statement. Even funnier when he questions other people's education. duuuhhh.....


therightstuff: Posted: July 7, 2014 6:15 p.m.

Indy: """You’ve got to give therightstuff poster credit for not addressing these questions:"""

Says the same guy who refuses to give us any example of where Fox News reporting is factually inaccurate. I've asked him eight times now to answer MY question and all he can do demean my education. Typical Indy.

I've already answered his questions but I have no problem explaining them further for the dimwitted.

QUESTION ONE: Why do conservatives vote to underfund the IRS when it’s asked to perform expanded duties?

What were the ***expanded duties*** of the IRS and ***who*** ordered them? The IRS was charged with targeting any groups that sounded like they would be opposed to the Obama administration. You know, the Tea Party types that shellacked the Democrats in 2010. This hapless poster not only ignores the dire consequences of such actions but thinks conservatives should have funded this witch hunt. How much education does one need to know that poop stinks?

QUESTION TWO: And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?

My answer is that Boehner made the mistake - like most of America - of actually taking Obama at his word that ***HE*** was going to fix it.

And his response is PRICELESS:

Indy: Gee . . . sad this poster didn’t take civics back in high school . . . if he attended . . . to grasp that congress pass the laws!!!

Notice, this Obama wh0re never ONCE complained when Obama arbitrarily changed the health care law - WITHOUT CONGRESS. It was a law that Congress passed and yet Obama has changed it over 20 times!!! Any high school civics student would know this is outrageous and yet, this poster actually DEFENDS IT. The hypocrisy is appalling.

Indy is living proof that education can be absolutely worthless for someone who has sold his soul to a narrow and failed ideology.




stray: Posted: July 7, 2014 6:42 p.m.

@Indy - "House republicans are failing the American public"

Oh plz Indy! Still drinking the Kool-Aid, ??? Quit reading the Lefy, lunatic websites, will ya ???

It's YOUR DUMBocratic party that's failing the American public! Taxing the living sh*t out of us to pay for these ridiculous "hand-outs" for ALL the people who don't want to work but will take ALL the "hand-outs" that the DUMBOcrats give them!

@ Indy -

And to answer your question about: "OBOZO for example, during his SOTU speech, promised Americans ‘unlimited growth’ on a ‘fixed rock in space’... Do you agree with Obama on this?

Read this carefully Indy. I don't, and NEVER have believed a word from that egotistical, back-stabbing compulsive liar. It's been said many times "Anything that comes out of Obozo's mouth is the same thing that comes out of Obozo's A$$"

Indy, what don't you understand about that lying buffoon ??? Obozo claims that he first learns about ALL the events (scandals) in the news... With ALL Obozo's advisors, you believe him ??? But, he won't call them scandals - of course not, not on HIS WATCH. But, when Bush was in office, Obozo never stopped with his diarrhea filled, scathing statements while continuously bashing BUSH. Obozo blamed BUSH for everything and still blames him for everything! Go ahead and do yourself a BIG favor Indy - have some more Kool-Aid - only this time, have a great BIG gulp!


tech: Posted: July 7, 2014 8:22 p.m.

"You assert that number . . . so you must be familiar.

And if you can’t defend you’re assertions, then you’re just blowing partisan smoke" - Indy

Speaking of partisan smoke:

Indy: In any event, here’s a link with some of the bills: http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/gops-claim-house-passed-30-jobs-bills-bogus

And I like the first comment who reviewed the bills:

“A couple of months ago a heard that claim about 28 "jobs bills" and looked them up, here was my summary:
-18 of them reduce or eliminate government regulations in nearly every business sector, especially of energy and pollution
-6 give more tax breaks to the same big businesses that are sitting on record profits and not hiring people right now.”

There's more information available than at "Crooks & Liars", Indy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crooks_and_Liars

Since you're remedial, I'll assist.

http://bit.ly/1qdeNTr --edited.


Indy: Posted: July 7, 2014 11:51 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: INDY: """I just ‘clarity’ your inaccuracies"""

Yes, I also caught the hilarious irony of Indy's statement. Even funnier when he questions other people's education. duuuhhh.....

Indy: It’s important that we understand whether someone is just reciting ideology or actually has a clue with respect to the topic.

I’m not a doctor so I don’t give medical advice but I have studied business, economics, and management at the graduate level so those areas I feel good to address.

You, on the other hand, assert basic RNC economic talking points that don’t map to the economic reality . . . . thus I’m curious if you’ve studied economics.

They teach economics in high school now but perhaps not when you attended.


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 12:04 a.m.

Therightstuff wrote: Indy: """You’ve got to give therightstuff poster credit for not addressing these questions:"""

Says the same guy who refuses to give us any example of where Fox News reporting is factually inaccurate. I've asked him eight times now to answer MY question and all he can do demean my education. Typical Indy.

QUESTION ONE: Why do conservatives vote to underfund the IRS when it’s asked to perform expanded duties?

What were the ***expanded duties*** of the IRS and ***who*** ordered them? The IRS was charged with targeting any groups that sounded like they would be opposed to the Obama administration. You know, the Tea Party types that shellacked the Democrats in 2010. This hapless poster not only ignores the dire consequences of such actions but thinks conservatives should have funded this witch hunt. How much education does one need to know that poop stinks?

Indy: Well, at least we’re making progress . . .

We’ve seen reported repeated that the IRS was understaffed to properly review all 501C4 applications in a ‘timely’ manner.

We also saw reported that liberal groups were likewise investigated.

The problem is what leads to the second question:

Therightstuff wrote: QUESTION TWO: And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?

My answer is that Boehner made the mistake - like most of America - of actually taking Obama at his word that ***HE*** was going to fix it.

Indy: The problem here is that the IRS ‘asked’ congress for more specific language and clarification for 501C4s not Obama.

If this issue is as important as you noted, why did Boehner not do anything? Why not address the ‘targeting issue’ to make it easier for the IRS to set up their reviews.

And why all of the sudden does Boehner trust Obama on anything . . . that doesn’t even make any sense.

And if the IRS searched groups with the use of the term ‘Tea Party’ in them, they term is associated with conservative groups.

You again blame Obama . . . but he doesn’t write the laws . . . nor does he set up the funding for the IRS.


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 12:07 a.m.

Therightstuff wrote: And his response is PRICELESS: Indy: Gee . . . sad this poster didn’t take civics back in high school . . . if he attended . . . to grasp that congress pass the laws!!!

Notice, this Obama wh0re never ONCE complained when Obama arbitrarily changed the health care law - WITHOUT CONGRESS. It was a law that Congress passed and yet Obama has changed it over 20 times!!! Any high school civics student would know this is outrageous and yet, this poster actually DEFENDS IT. The hypocrisy is appalling. Indy is living proof that education can be absolutely worthless for someone who has sold his soul to a narrow and failed ideology.

Indy: I hope that Boehner does sue Obama . . . and that we get a fully hearing on these types of issues.

If Boehner has any leg to stand on then let’s get it going immediately.

We’ll get to see if the ‘innuendo and speculation’ of Fox has any merit as well . . .

Hopefully, he’ll proceed in a more timely fashion that he did with getting the IRS rules for 501C4s that he still hasn’t done . . .


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 12:13 a.m.

Therightstuff wrote: Says the same guy who refuses to give us any example of where Fox News reporting is factually inaccurate. I've asked him eight times now to answer MY question and all he can do demean my education. Typical Indy.

Indy: I don’t do fact checking for Fox since most of their ‘news’ is biased and ‘framed’ in conservative talking points.

I do know that when you underfund any organization, problems are created.

You’ve ignored that association . . . and thus the consequences of same.

Fox doesn’t provide good information in context any more than you do.

In any event, asking for somebody’s ‘educational background’ isn’t demeaning them.

It’s important to understand if your background adds any validity to your statements.

Since you constantly and repeatedly recite economic statictics out of context, it’s quite logical to assert you have no formal education in economics.

But what puzzles me is why you and Tech refuse to inform anyone here of your educational background.

It doesn’t both me in the least to state my credentials including a Bachelor of Science Degree in Mechanical Engineering and a MBA that was ‘extended’ with 60% more classes since it was a MBA for non-undergraduates in business.

Likewise, I’ve run a small business for 20+ years and worked in engineering for another 20.

That wasn’t so hard to state . . .


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 12:16 a.m.

Stray wrote: @ Indy - And to answer your question about: "OBOZO for example, during his SOTU speech, promised Americans ‘unlimited growth’ on a ‘fixed rock in space’... Do you agree with Obama on this?

Read this carefully Indy. I don't, and NEVER have believed a word from that egotistical, back-stabbing compulsive liar. It's been said many times "Anything that comes out of Obozo's mouth is the same thing that comes out of Obozo's A$$"

Indy: Yes, but he’s agreeing with conservatives on the ‘unlimited growth’ statement . . . why is that?

Stray wrote: Indy, what don't you understand about that lying buffoon ??? Obozo claims that he first learns about ALL the events (scandals) in the news... With ALL Obozo's advisors, you believe him ??? But, he won't call them scandals - of course not, not on HIS WATCH. But, when Bush was in office, Obozo never stopped with his diarrhea filled, scathing statements while continuously bashing BUSH. Obozo blamed BUSH for everything and still blames him for everything! Go ahead and do yourself a BIG favor Indy - have some more Kool-Aid - only this time, have a great BIG gulp!

Indy: But your calling him ‘Obozo’ is at least creative . . . but let me know why Obama agrees with conservatives on economic growth.

Does that make the GOP . . . GOPozos as well?


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 12:18 a.m.

Tech: Here’s a recap of the mostly anti-regulatory ‘job bills’ from the GOP:

No Pivot Necessary: Republicans Consistently Focused on JobsNovember 26, 2013|Katie Boyd - See more at: http://www.speaker.gov/general/no-pivot-necessary-republicans-consistently-focused-jobs#sthash.EsNFxcV5.dpuf

I’ll let you pick any bill and we can discuss whether it creates ‘jobs’ or is just a recital of GOP ideology.


tech: Posted: July 8, 2014 2:52 a.m.

You'll "let me", Indy?

With others, I'd start with job bills focusing on development of the energy sector. You don't qualify for engagement. Others warned me about your MO when I began participating here a couple of years ago but I gave you a fair opportunity to prove you could discuss topics rationally.

I've proven on numerous occasions that I'm quite capable of a thoughtful dialectic discussion. You, however, mostly engage in ideological trolling or go silent post eviscerating rebuttals by myself and others.

You asserted: "- the House has done nothing per see (sic) to address any jobs bills" - Indy

You've now conceded my point that the House has passed 40+ jobs bills and wish to quibble about the quantities that would obtain if they were allowed a vote by Reid and passed by the Senate.

I've learned to rebut your assertions and move on.


ricketzz: Posted: July 8, 2014 11:06 a.m.

Tech, are these "clean" bills or do they have ideologically extreme riders attached?


Nitesho: Posted: July 8, 2014 11:34 a.m.

ricketzz, Name one bill, just one, that doesn't or didnt, have ideologically extreme riders attached? from both sides?


therightstuff: Posted: July 8, 2014 12:38 p.m.

INDY: """I don’t do fact checking for Fox since most of their ‘news’ is biased and ‘framed’ in conservative talking points."""

This doesn't stop you from watching MSNBC or pre-judging FOX News. If you want to be a critic of Fox News, all I ask is that you point out the where they are being factually incorrect instead of regurgitating the MSNBC talking points.


INDY """In any event, asking for somebody’s ‘educational background’ isn’t demeaning them."""

Agreed. But implying that they never went to high school because they disagree with you is demeaning which you've done on more than one occasion. Why is it so hard for far-left ideologues to be honest?


INDY: """But what puzzles me is why you and Tech refuse to inform anyone here of your educational background."""

I wasn't aware that anyone else cared except you. But so you can sleep at night, I'm proud of my educational background. Yes Indy, I did complete high school but like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Walt Disney, Abraham Lincoln and others, I do not have a college degree. I have several certifications in my chosen field of fund raising and development where I have been quite successful for several decades. As a private consultant, I enjoy watching doctors, lawyers, politicians, business people and other highly educated folks hang on my every word because of my expertise.

The bottom line is that if I am quoting something out of context, show me. I've proven to offer an apology or admit where I'm wrong. But to suggest that I didn't attend high school because you disagree with me only makes you look small.


INDY: """We’ve seen reported repeated that the IRS was understaffed to properly review all 501C4 applications in a ‘timely’ manner."""

WHO gave the order to investigate these applications and WHY? The one in charge has pleaded the Fifth and the IRS reported that all her emails were lost in a computer crash 10 days into the investigation. Honestly Indy, does that not bother you at all?


INDY: """You again blame Obama . . . but he doesn’t write the laws"""

I never blamed Obama for the IRS scandal. I am merely holding him responsible for his promise to "fix" it. And how can you say Obama doesn't write the laws when he changed the ACA law over 20 times - without Congress. Once again, does this not trouble you at all, Indy?





tech: Posted: July 8, 2014 1:09 p.m.

"Tech, are these "clean" bills or do they have ideologically extreme riders attached?" - ricketzz

Your question presupposes an ideological position, i.e. one acceptable to the opposing party with zero negotiation. That's rarely how legislation is enacted.

I'm providing a primer URL from the Library of Congress. I've selected the link that details the conference process designed to negotiate differences between House and Senate legislation.

https://beta.congress.gov/legislative-process/resolving-differences


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 9:43 p.m.

Tech wrote: You'll "let me", Indy?

With others, I'd start with job bills focusing on development of the energy sector. You don't qualify for engagement. Others warned me about your MO when I began participating here a couple of years ago but I gave you a fair opportunity to prove you could discuss topics rationally.

Indy: Here again, you’re agreeing with yourself and haven’t even picked a bill . . .

Tech wrote:I've proven on numerous occasions that I'm quite capable of a thoughtful dialectic discussion. You, however, mostly engage in ideological trolling or go silent post eviscerating rebuttals by myself and others.

Indy: Same thing again . . . your support your own conclusions independent of debate.

Tech wrote: You asserted: "- the House has done nothing per see (sic) to address any jobs bills" - Indy

You've now conceded my point that the House has passed 40+ jobs bills and wish to quibble about the quantities that would obtain if they were allowed a vote by Reid and passed by the Senate. I've learned to rebut your assertions and move on.

Indy: Not the quantities but the ‘basis’ for calling something a ‘jobs bills’ that only deregulates.

How’d that deregulation work out when Clinton signed the FMA sponsored by republican Senator Phil Gramm?

Yes, Clinton has admitted that rolling back the regulations developed after the depression was wrong . . . but Bush W and his both houses of congress just ‘ignored’ the ‘bubbles’ that were forming.

Running two wars on ‘debt’ also over stimulated the economy and make the ‘2007’ crash worse EEBE.

In any event, I’m just here to help you understand basic economics and business . . . and I can see you really need that help since ‘agreeing with yourself’ doesn’t provide any real conclusions other than your misguided support of libertarian market fundamentalism.


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 9:52 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: INDY """In any event, asking for somebody’s ‘educational background’ isn’t demeaning them."""

Agreed. But implying that they never went to high school because they disagree with you is demeaning which you've done on more than one occasion. Why is it so hard for far-left ideologues to be honest?

Indy: The reality is that you make economics assertions that are simply wrong . . . so it’s of interest to see if you’ve had any training in economics . . . just like more folks want to know their ‘doctor’ has a medical degree before accepting the advice from same.


Therightstuff wrote: INDY: """But what puzzles me is why you and Tech refuse to inform anyone here of your educational background."""

I wasn't aware that anyone else cared except you. But so you can sleep at night, I'm proud of my educational background. Yes Indy, I did complete high school but like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Walt Disney, Abraham Lincoln and others, I do not have a college degree. I have several certifications in my chosen field of fund raising and development where I have been quite successful for several decades. As a private consultant, I enjoy watching doctors, lawyers, politicians, business people and other highly educated folks hang on my every word because of my expertise.

The bottom line is that if I am quoting something out of context, show me. I've proven to offer an apology or admit where I'm wrong. But to suggest that I didn't attend high school because you disagree with me only makes you look small.

Indy: I think that’s great that you compare yourself with those ‘titans’ of business and politics.

But again, ‘fund raising and development’ are different from basic economics.

And you’ve stated many times the economics statistics out of context to their cause.

And you simply reject any discussion of that by me regardless of the evidence.

But I understand that now . . . once ideologues assume you’re of one political party or the other, the ‘wall comes down’ to any real debate and we’re back to recitals.

But I do appreciate your disclosure . . . and I am impressed with your clientele.

Experience in a given job area is a real plus . . . my partner had that in that he knew most everything about ‘making the product’ we produced but hadn’t the training to ‘run the money’ or the business side that including the contracts, accounting, budgeting, and so forth.

As a team we did quite well . . . but when he died, I dissolved the business not being able to ‘substitute’ his experience.

Your conservative friend here Tech keeps telling me my business ‘failed’ . . . but it was a conscious decision after a ‘SWAT’ analysis to do something else that provided me with a ‘six figure’ income.


tech: Posted: July 8, 2014 9:56 p.m.

res ipsa loquitur


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 9:59 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: INDY: """We’ve seen reported repeated that the IRS was understaffed to properly review all 501C4 applications in a ‘timely’ manner."""

WHO gave the order to investigate these applications and WHY? The one in charge has pleaded the Fifth and the IRS reported that all her emails were lost in a computer crash 10 days into the investigation. Honestly Indy, does that not bother you at all?

Indy: I’ve seen the managerial incompetence at the large companies I’ve worked for.

Far too much nepotism . . . and rewards for those that support upper management even if the reports to them were just telling them what they wanted to hear.

We can discuss the circumstance till hell freezes over . . . but the reality is that computer backup systems should have been in place . . . there’s no excuse except for funding.

And you don’t advance in big business if you don’t follow your direct report’s wishes even if they are outdated and simply wrong.

Likewise, there’s no excuse of the management of the VA other than the former director who was fired was either telling the President the truth that was ignored or asked to paint a ‘rosy’ picture that didn’t exists.


Therightstuff wrote: INDY: """You again blame Obama . . . but he doesn’t write the laws"""

I never blamed Obama for the IRS scandal. I am merely holding him responsible for his promise to "fix" it. And how can you say Obama doesn't write the laws when he changed the ACA law over 20 times - without Congress. Once again, does this not trouble you at all, Indy?

Indy: Again, the IRS was asking ‘congress’ . . . and for an issue that Issa thinks is ‘mother’s milk’, for Boehner not to create rational policies to judge 501C4s is simply not doing his ‘job’.

Boehner can blame Obama forever but there’s no excuse of his inactivity, none.

As far as the changes to the ACA, please give the list you are looking at . . . we’ll go through it point by point.


Indy: Posted: July 8, 2014 10:01 p.m.

Tech wrote: res ipsa loquitur

Indy: A rose by any other name . . .


stray: Posted: July 8, 2014 10:28 p.m.

for himself...


stray: Posted: July 8, 2014 11:56 p.m.

@Indy - "Economists know that tax cuts in recessions don’t work"

Indy, where did you dig up that crap ??? Are you going to concede that Jimmy "peanut brain" Carter screwed up the economy and put America into double digit inflation ??? When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Indy, did you forget that interest rates soared to 22% during "peanut brain Carter's" tenure ??? Then, after you admit it, then read what Reagan did... Yep, tax cuts!!! And they WORKED unequivocally!

Here ya go... "Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures"

"Cut tax rates restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone."

"What is so striking about Obamanomics is how it so doggedly pursues the opposite of every one of these planks of Reaganomics. Instead of reducing tax rates, President Obama is committed to raising the top tax rates of virtually every major federal tax."

@Indy - "Obama brought the economy back and now is seeing a stock market over 17,000!!!

Don't wet your pants so much in excitement! If you want to give your Messiah credit, why don't you give credit to the REPUBLICAN guy, named Reagan, with the mess he got dumped on his lap and how he turned things around !?!?!?!?

"The stock market, during Reagan tenure, more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990, a larger increase than in any previous decade. We call this period, 1982-2007, the twenty-five year boom–the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business … was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, … net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the twenty-five year boom than in the previous two hundred years."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/05/reaganomics-vs-obamanomics-facts-and-figures/


therightstuff: Posted: July 9, 2014 12:25 a.m.

Indy: """As far as the changes to the ACA, please give the list you are looking at . . . we’ll go through it point by point."""

It's a well known fact that Obama has arbitrarily made over 20 changes to his own law - without Congress. To go through them point by point only to have you recite your DNC talking points, defend Obama at all costs, and blame the GOP for everything would be as enjoyable as a root canal. Trying to convince you that Barack Obama has feet of clay would be an exercise in futility. I'll pass.


tech: Posted: July 9, 2014 12:36 a.m.

Or you'd get the same response from Indy on this link:

emheilbrun:
Posted: July 5, 2014
7:18 a.m.
Indy, here's a link...thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCxm8Gt447A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Indy:


tech: Posted: July 9, 2014 2:32 a.m.

He, for example, during his SOTU speech, promised Americans ‘unlimited growth’ on a ‘fixed rock in space’. - Indy

Wrong again, Indy.

The Earth is dynamic, with an annual heliocentric orbit. There's the Chandler axis wobble as well. It isn't "fixed".

Time to lose another of your clichés.

fixed
Syllabification: fixed
Pronunciation: /fikst /
ADJECTIVE

Fastened securely in position:
fixed iron ladder down the port side


ricketzz: Posted: July 9, 2014 9:18 a.m.

High interest rates in the late 1970s were intentional, applied by Fed Chief Volker, to cool down some part of the economy. Reagan cut taxes, then raised them 12 times. He mainly shifted the burden from high worth individuals to hourly wages earners. He did a lot of evil things.


stray: Posted: July 9, 2014 10:54 a.m.

@ricketzz - "High interest rates in the late 1970s were intentional - to cool down some part of the economy"

Oh brother! Where do I begin ??? What part of the economy needed cooling down ?!?!?!?!?

Ricketzz - Economics 101 back in Carter's term... "The government's ever-rising need for $$$ swelled the budget deficit and led to greater government borrowing, which in turn pushed up interest rates and increased costs for businesses and consumers even further."
==
@Ricketzz - "Reagan did a lot of evil things"

Evil things? I recommend YOU go back in time and read about the evil things that Carter did to get America into the biggest economic MESS ever! And, the ONLY reason that we are not experiencing INFLATION now, is because the Feds are keeping interest rates extremely low. But, they cannot continue this low rate forever, so do EXPECT inflation in the future. With ALL the government borrowing and increase in printing $$$ with THIS administration, you better wake up - because INFLATION is coming...

Please put down the Kool-Aid and go find Indy - he's waiting for ya ...

http://economics.about.com/od/useconomichistory/a/stagflation.htm


ricketzz: Posted: July 10, 2014 9:48 a.m.

Prices were inflating too fast so Volcker cooled the economy. Soaring oil prices were behind most of the price inflation. The same prejudice that Obama enjoys was present during Carter's reign, as well. All Democrats being inherently evil and all. Quantitative Easing has nothing to do with the money supply. It is all bank to bank e-transacting. Nobody has been printing extra money. Some inflation is good. Food will be un-affordable soon, due to Global Warming.


Indy: Posted: July 11, 2014 9:14 p.m.

Therightstuff wrote: Indy: """As far as the changes to the ACA, please give the list you are looking at . . . we’ll go through it point by point."""

It's a well known fact that Obama has arbitrarily made over 20 changes to his own law - without Congress. To go through them point by point only to have you recite your DNC talking points, defend Obama at all costs, and blame the GOP for everything would be as enjoyable as a root canal. Trying to convince you that Barack Obama has feet of clay would be an exercise in futility. I'll pass.

Indy: Just give the list and we’ll go through them . . .


Indy: Posted: July 11, 2014 9:21 p.m.

Stray wrote: @Indy - "Economists know that tax cuts in recessions don’t work"

Indy, where did you dig up that crap ???

Indy: From an advisor that worked for Bush W:

Bruce Bartlett's blog
Government Spending and the Economy
By BRUCE BARTLETT
July 17, 2012
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/government-spending-and-the-economy/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

According to the federal Web site that tracks stimulus programs, $763.1 billion of the original $840 billion program has been disbursed. Of this, $297.8 billion, or 39 percent, went to tax cuts, like the Making Work Pay tax credit. Another $236.7 billion, or 31 percent, went for various contracts, grants and loans. And $228.6 billion, or 30 percent, went for transfer payments.

Thus we see that most of the stimulus was unlikely to ever have had much impact on growth. Transfers and tax credits only raise growth if they cause individuals and businesses to increase their consumption or investment spending. Undoubtedly they did to some extent.

But studies have long shown that people’s spending is largely a function of what they view as their “permanent income.” Temporary increases tend to be saved and thus do not add to spending or growth. Keep in mind also that the federal deficit constitutes negative saving, which offsets any increase in saving resulting from deficit-financed tax cuts or transfers.


Indy: Posted: July 11, 2014 9:26 p.m.

Stray wrote: Are you going to concede that Jimmy "peanut brain" Carter screwed up the economy and put America into double digit inflation ??? When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Indy, did you forget that interest rates soared to 22% during "peanut brain Carter's" tenure ??? Then, after you admit it, then read what Reagan did... Yep, tax cuts!!! And they WORKED unequivocally!

Indy: What you ‘forget’ is that the deficit spending by Reagan created the ‘stimulus’ that you addressed . . . here take a look:

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

Stray wrote: Here ya go... "Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures"

"Cut tax rates restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone."

"What is so striking about Obamanomics is how it so doggedly pursues the opposite of every one of these planks of Reaganomics. Instead of reducing tax rates, President Obama is committed to raising the top tax rates of virtually every major federal tax."

Indy: Interestingly, when tax rates were raised on the wealthy . . . the economy improved under Obama!!!!

Stray wrote: @Indy - "Obama brought the economy back and now is seeing a stock market over 17,000!!!

Don't wet your pants so much in excitement! If you want to give your Messiah credit, why don't you give credit to the REPUBLICAN guy, named Reagan, with the mess he got dumped on his lap and how he turned things around !?!?!?!?

Indy: Obama like Reagan used deficits for stimulus . . .


stray: Posted: July 12, 2014 2:14 p.m.

@Indy -

Gotta love your persistence Indy! You and I, and others here, can beat this subject to a pulp and still not agree with one another. Simply remember that economists on both sides of the isle will agree to dis-agree with economic stimulus matters. There are always advantages and dis-advantages to tax cuts, but at the end of the day, it does put money into people's pocket. That includes everyday people all the way up to the wealthiest folks. It stimulates the economy and that's what it is ALL about. The real reason is that tax cuts provide flexibility: people who want to consume more can use their tax cuts for that purpose; while people who want to save or invest more can use their tax cuts to buy up government bonds. People have $$$ in their hands to do what they want - provide food at the table for their families, or have that money available for that unexpected emergency, or paying for their children's tuition. Face it, when people have money in their pockets, they tend to spend it. That keeps the "Mom and Pop" stores afloat, then businesses sell their inventory which ends up in your home - and restaurants, hotels, airlines ALL stay in business and tourism flourishes - both here and abroad. That is ideal during a recession. But, on the other hand, taking money out of peoples' hands, by taking MORE in taxes, does nothing but have dire consequences - everything is severely impacted negatively. The majority of people can't pay their living expenses, and there isn't any extra money available for them.

In the capitalist society we live in, people tend to "Live in the Now" and not prepare for their financial future. Most everyone has to have everything NOW and cannot wait. With that said, when the government takes more and more from the working class - especially during a recession, it slows down the economy, hotels grow cob webs in the rooms, stores go out of business and it will severely impact the economy in a negative manner.

I am ALWAYS in favor of tax cuts - Yes! More TAX CUTS!


Indy: Posted: July 12, 2014 8:57 p.m.

Stray wrote: @Indy - Gotta love your persistence Indy! You and I, and others here, can beat this subject to a pulp and still not agree with one another. Simply remember that economists on both sides of the isle will agree to dis-agree with economic stimulus matters. There are always advantages and dis-advantages to tax cuts, but at the end of the day, it does put money into people's pocket.

Indy: The big issue here is that we don’t use taxes for economic growth.

We collect taxes to provide public services that are created by majority vote.

But riddle me this . . . why is wealth concentration in the US over the last 30 years? (note the top 1% now take 20% of all income, up for just 8% in 1980 or so)

And why have middle class wages ‘stagnated’?

Stray wrote: That includes everyday people all the way up to the wealthiest folks. It stimulates the economy and that's what it is ALL about. The real reason is that tax cuts provide flexibility: people who want to consume more can use their tax cuts for that purpose; while people who want to save or invest more can use their tax cuts to buy up government bonds. People have $$$ in their hands to do what they want - provide food at the table for their families, or have that money available for that unexpected emergency, or paying for their children's tuition.

Indy: What about Americans that need food stamps to eat?

How about the funding of public education?

Do you agree or not that every family can put as many children as they wish into our K-12 public schools on ‘fixed tax rates’?

Can you see why that doesn’t work?

And why have child credits that add a ‘economic incentive’ to demand more than they can afford?


Indy: Posted: July 12, 2014 9:01 p.m.

Stray wrote: Face it, when people have money in their pockets, they tend to spend it. That keeps the "Mom and Pop" stores afloat, then businesses sell their inventory which ends up in your home - and restaurants, hotels, airlines ALL stay in business and tourism flourishes - both here and abroad. That is ideal during a recession. But, on the other hand, taking money out of peoples' hands, by taking MORE in taxes, does nothing but have dire consequences - everything is severely impacted negatively. The majority of people can't pay their living expenses, and there isn't any extra money available for them.

Indy: What the economist noted above for me is that people don’t spending extra money in a recession fearing for their jobs . . . that’s why the tax cuts in the stimulus bill had little or no effect.

Stray wrote: In the capitalist society we live in, people tend to "Live in the Now" and not prepare for their financial future. Most everyone has to have everything NOW and cannot wait. With that said, when the government takes more and more from the working class - especially during a recession, it slows down the economy, hotels grow cob webs in the rooms, stores go out of business and it will severely impact the economy in a negative manner.

Indy: Again, taxes are for public services.

When a politician clamors for tax cuts, they don’t tell the ‘voter’ the consequences?

Why, for example, have we been dropping out more than 1 student in 4 from our public schools for 30 years?

Why did this start after proposition 13?

Why do capital gains tax rates are lower for investors that use more of the nation’s infrastructure?

I’m really curious to your answers . . .


tech: Posted: July 12, 2014 10:40 p.m.

Isn't it a pleasure to roll out your cut and paste golden oldies that have already been rebutted by the more experienced posters here, Indy?

With "progressives", history begins each morning, eh?

Have fun, stray!


ricketzz: Posted: July 13, 2014 9:52 a.m.

I think the president took some Colorado gold home with him. He is acting more human lately. The lefties were just as aghast at Bush as the righties are at Obama. I think the media is to blame. Direct your anger at the people who lie to you all day so you'll be a better consumer. Follow the money. Lighten up on our public servants.


stray: Posted: July 13, 2014 2:01 p.m.

@ricketzz - "Direct your anger at the people who lie to you all day"

I do.... That's why I call him Obozo. Anyone who has read my posts know that I constantly bash BHO for his continuous lies. And, that's why I cannot stand him! I have absolutely NO respect for a non-leader. A true leader would address issues and show strength - not spew lies for ALL his ineptness!

BHO - His famous lies: "I just learned about that in the news. I didn't know anything about that until now that it's in the news."

1. The IRS Scandal - What was said: “I first learned about it through the same news reports other people learned from,” President Obama said. (May 13th, 2013)

What they knew: The White House Counsel was notified of the investigation into IRS wrong-doing as of April 22nd at the very latest. [Wall Street Journal]

Despite being labeled by the White House press secretary Jay Carney as a “phony scandal,” the IRS actually admitted to the targeting and apologized. [Associated Press].

2. Benghazi - What BHO said: “What we do know is that the natural protests that arose because of the outrage over the video were used as an excuse by extremists to see if they can also directly harm U.S. interests.” (President Obama on September 20th, 2014 – 11 days after the Benghazi terrorist attack.)

What they knew: “The Obama administration was wary to label the 2012 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi as an act of terrorism but declassified testimony from a top Pentagon official indicates there was little ambiguity among Defense Department players that terrorism was the likely motive.” [New York Daily News] We now have the evidence that the State Department knew right away that Benghazi was a jihad terror attack. We know that Susan Rice knew. Barack Obama also knew and lied to the American people.

3. DOJ Spying on Fox and AP Reporters - (Eric Holder said on May 15th to the House Judiciary Committee.)

What was said: “With regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that is not something I’ve ever been involved in, heard of, or would think would be wise policy.”

What they knew: “Attorney General Eric Holder personally signed off on the warrant that allowed the Justice Department to search Fox News reporter James Rosen’s personal email, NBC News’ Michael Isikoff reported Thursday.” [Huffington Post]

Continued:


stray: Posted: July 13, 2014 2:05 p.m.

Continued:

4. Affordable Health Care - BHO- "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it, period! "If you like your doctor, you can keep him, period!"

Really, How's that working out???

5. Millions Would Not ‘Keep Their Plans’ - BHO - {back peddling after his initial statements caught in lies}

What was said: “If you have or had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law and you really liked that plan, what we said was you can keep it – if it hasn’t changed since the law passed.” (President Obama said on November 6th, 2013, despite videotaped evidence of his repeated promise that Americans would “keep your plan… period.” [Daily Mail]

What they knew: “President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.” [NBC News - Oct. 28, 2013]

5. NSA Spying on All Americans - What NSA said: “To think we’re collecting on every U.S. person… that would be against the law. The fact is we’re a foreign intelligence agency.” (NSA Director Keith Alexander in July 2013.) [Forbes] Obama recently denied knowing the extent of the NSA’s spying on Americans. [Truth Revolt.]

What they knew: Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, after denying before Congress that “the NSA collected any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans,” later admitted that his statement was “clearly erroneous.” [ABC News. See also Washington Post]

6. Fast & Furious Gunrunning - What was said: “I heard on the news about this story that fast and furious, where allegedly guns were being run into Mexico and ATF knew about it but didn’t apprehend those who had sent it. Eric Holder has — the attorney general has been very clear that he knew nothing about this.” [President Obama said on March 22, 2011. See CNS News] former DHS Head Janet Napolitano denied knowing about Fast & Furious in September 2011. [The Hill]

What they knew: At a press conference in June 2009, Janet Napolitano and Deputy Attorney General David Ogden explicitly discussed the weapons tracing operations of the ATF (which is under the Justice department) in an announcement of Project Gunrunner.

As an ATF-led transnational operation running guns to Mexican drug cartels, the Department of Justice was implicitly involved. Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress for refusing to turn over documents that would prove the DOJ knew the operation was getting Mexican civilians killed, along with Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.


stray: Posted: July 13, 2014 2:06 p.m.

Continued:

7. ObamaCare Website is a Disaster - What was said: “Sebelius took the blame for giving the impression that the website was ready for launch before Oct. 1. ‘I told the president we were ready to go. Clearly, I was wrong,’ she said.” [Fox News]

What they knew: “When the testing finally took place in late September, the testers started trying to create an application. Just a couple of pages into the process, everything ‘ground to a stop,’ says one source, it ‘it froze,’ ‘it couldn’t go forward,’ ‘it crashed.’ A couple of days later, testers tried again and had a similar outcome. They were never able to successfully browse plans for cost estimates. ‘It was unequivocally clear from testing this wasn’t ready,’ says a source close to the testing.” [CBS News]

There you have it: seven clear cases where major figures in the Obama presidency denied knowing what was going on when a big scandal or major failure hit the headlines. On several occasions, they acted like they “read it in the news.”

But they knew ALL the while and clearly lied to the American people.


stray: Posted: July 13, 2014 3:04 p.m.

@Indy - "Taxes are for public services"

You betcha... My tax dollars are now purchasing diapers for the border patrol so that they can wipe and change the illegal infants who crossed into the US from Central America! Further, my tax dollars now supply Enfamil to the illegal infants; and we are also providing medical care for them.

And yet, my tax dollars are paying for BHO to play pool and drink beer in Texas instead of addressing the border problems. ALL this - under the guise of "Fund Raising" for HIS party...

Yep, taxes are for public services!


tech: Posted: July 13, 2014 3:46 p.m.

"I think the media is to blame. Direct your anger at the people who lie to you all day so you'll be a better consumer. Follow the money. Lighten up on our public servants." - ricketzz

Got that, stray? We're being lied to because… consumerism!

Additionally, it's no doubt the fault of the media for not informing Obama about these scandals in the administration he leads sooner as well.

Lighten up! Stress will take Obama off his golf game.


stray: Posted: July 13, 2014 4:32 p.m.

@ricketzz - "Lighten up on our public servants"

I would prefer if you rephrase that to: "Lighten up on our inept public servants who are nothing less than liars - who are not serving us in our best interests" (That also reminds me of our local city council!)

@tech - "Got that, stray?"

Sure enough! I got it! :)


Indy: Posted: July 13, 2014 10:38 p.m.

Stray wrote: @Indy - "Taxes are for public services"

You betcha... My tax dollars are now purchasing diapers for the border patrol so that they can wipe and change the illegal infants who crossed into the US from Central America! Further, my tax dollars now supply Enfamil to the illegal infants; and we are also providing medical care for them.

Indy: Why do you think those kids are coming here?

And should we suggest to Mexico to cut off the 1.5 million barrels of oil they export to us EACH DAY?

Stray wrote: Yep, taxes are for public services!

Indy: I get the ‘Obama hatred’ but mocking our government for partisan political purposes?


Indy: Posted: July 13, 2014 10:41 p.m.

Stray wrote: 7. ObamaCare Website is a Disaster - What was said: “Sebelius took the blame for giving the impression that the website was ready for launch before Oct. 1. ‘I told the president we were ready to go. Clearly, I was wrong,’ she said.” [Fox News]

Indy: Dude, you’re reciting ‘old’ RNC/Fox talking points . . .

But why do 74% of republicans that purchased health plans through the ACA like them?

Why has the % of insured Americans gone down to the lowest in 10 years?

Why did 8+ million Americans sign up for the ACA?

And why are republican controlled states not allowing their poor to take the benefits of the Medicaid expansion?


Indy: Posted: July 13, 2014 10:45 p.m.

Stray wrote: 1. The IRS Scandal - . . .

Indy: now for your chance to answer these questions:

- Why do conservatives vote to underfund the IRS when it’s asked to perform expanded duties?

- And why hasn’t the House lead by Speak Boehner done anything to improve the qualifications for 501C4s that have been abused to political groups of both parties to hide donor contributions?

I’ll be sitting on the ‘edge of my seat’ waiting for your comments!


Indy: Posted: July 13, 2014 10:48 p.m.

Stray wrote: 2. Benghazi -

Indy: I highly recommend you read: The Benghazi Hoax by David Brock, Ari Rabin-Havt and Media Matters for America (Oct 16, 2013)

It will help you decipher the innuendo and speculation as you’ve put forth here . . .

And why don’t you mention the 10+ attacks that were carried out under Bush W?

Just ask’n . . .


Indy: Posted: July 13, 2014 10:50 p.m.

Stray wrote: 5. NSA Spying on All Americans –

Indy: Why do you suppose the congressional oversight in congress on the NSA ‘duped’ the republicans as well as the democrats?


Indy: Posted: July 13, 2014 10:52 p.m.

Still need some answers from this post:

Stray wrote: @Indy - Gotta love your persistence Indy! You and I, and others here, can beat this subject to a pulp and still not agree with one another. Simply remember that economists on both sides of the isle will agree to dis-agree with economic stimulus matters. There are always advantages and dis-advantages to tax cuts, but at the end of the day, it does put money into people's pocket.

Indy: The big issue here is that we don’t use taxes for economic growth.

We collect taxes to provide public services that are created by majority vote.

But riddle me this . . . why is wealth concentration in the US over the last 30 years? (note the top 1% now take 20% of all income, up for just 8% in 1980 or so)

And why have middle class wages ‘stagnated’?

Stray wrote: That includes everyday people all the way up to the wealthiest folks. It stimulates the economy and that's what it is ALL about. The real reason is that tax cuts provide flexibility: people who want to consume more can use their tax cuts for that purpose; while people who want to save or invest more can use their tax cuts to buy up government bonds. People have $$$ in their hands to do what they want - provide food at the table for their families, or have that money available for that unexpected emergency, or paying for their children's tuition.

Indy: What about Americans that need food stamps to eat?

How about the funding of public education?

Do you agree or not that every family can put as many children as they wish into our K-12 public schools on ‘fixed tax rates’?

Can you see why that doesn’t work?

And why have child credits that add a ‘economic incentive’ to demand more than they can afford?


ricketzz: Posted: July 15, 2014 10:11 a.m.

None of what you true believers calls a presidential "scandal" rises to the level of nothing more than Fox News stirring up the base. That's why nobody else covers these "scandals", they aren't scandals. Fox News lies once every 3 or 4 sentences on average (except from 3 to 4 PM when it's once every paragraph or 2.) They omit details that reverse the meaning of what they are trying to get you to believe. They get you addicted to rage adrenaline, and you like it.

The news should not have this effect. The external world has always been a mess. That's why we dropped out in 1789. Until recently Washington's Farewell Address was read aloud in each session of Congress. I say revive that tradition and add Eisenhower's. Or as we said during the Vietnam War, FTW.


tech: Posted: July 15, 2014 12:43 p.m.

"They get you addicted to rage adrenaline, and you like it." - ricketzz

Either you're delusional or spouting hyperbole for giggles. It's a challenge to determine which each morning. :-D --edited.


Indy: Posted: July 15, 2014 8:41 p.m.

Ricketzz wrote: None of what you true believers calls a presidential "scandal" rises to the level of nothing more than Fox News stirring up the base. That's why nobody else covers these "scandals", they aren't scandals. Fox News lies once every 3 or 4 sentences on average (except from 3 to 4 PM when it's once every paragraph or 2.) They omit details that reverse the meaning of what they are trying to get you to believe. They get you addicted to rage adrenaline, and you like it.

Indy: Definitely pandering to the uninformed for power . . . and the poor people that accept Fox’s version of things are only hurting themselves.

The challenge to get them to grasp that . . . made harder since Fox encourages those folks to ‘close down’ . . . not think . . .

Notice how the conservatives here simply 'ignore' whatever contradicts their ideology . . .


stray: Posted: July 16, 2014 12:55 a.m.

"Notice how the conservatives here simply 'ignore' whatever contradicts their ideology"

No Indy, we aren't glued to MSNBC, ABC, NBC, or any other station that distorts the real FACTS or won't even mention them at all. Those Lefty media stations protect your Messiah's blunders and scandals! It's unfortunate that you won't listen to the truth and the whole truth when we give it to you... It might actually make you intelligent! :)


stray: Posted: July 16, 2014 12:59 a.m.

"Either you're delusional or spouting hyperbole for giggles"

Yes tech, you have Ricketzz classified correctly - delusional! :)


ricketzz: Posted: July 16, 2014 10:33 a.m.

Watching the news of the day should not require emotional reaction except on rare occasions. If it is done constantly, the steady viewer gets hooked on the excitement; the flash graphics; the perennial Chyron; the Max Headroom kaleidoscope backgrounds; the pulsating Lower Left bug; to the point that the 1 hour healthy living shows on the weekends start withdrawal symptoms. Same goes for the Hate Radio all white man rage is channeled at poor people, minorities, peaceniks, environmentalists; we are the source of all your problems; not the venture capitalists who own the radio station and the Bloviatoros.

I caught some Glenn Beck the other day and I see where some of the new (old) rhetoric is coming from. History repeats. I'm old.


ricketzz: Posted: July 16, 2014 10:36 a.m.

In primitive cultures the Aspergians are frequently called Medicine Man, Shaman, etc. Our unique viewpoint is valued. In the USA we are frequently gunned down for not following directions shouted at us by police on Red Bull.


CaptGene: Posted: July 16, 2014 12:13 p.m.

cricketzz: "In primitive cultures the Aspergians are frequently called Medicine Man, Shaman, etc."

Perhaps you should go find one of those cultures and go there to spread your...ahem..."wisdom". --edited.


tech: Posted: July 16, 2014 2:15 p.m.

"…the flash graphics; the perennial Chyron; the Max Headroom kaleidoscope backgrounds; the pulsating Lower Left bug;…"

Projecting your internal feelings onto others isn't rational, especially with your medical diagnosis, ricketzz.

It's immensely amusing to witness your intense desire for centralized media control and Indy's FDS*. Both of you are creatures from the last century, i.e. seniors who believe the passive media of broadcast/cable networks and talk radio dominate people's lives as in the pre-internet era. This from someone who doesn't have audio on their internet computer. LOL!

As a modern example, I've watched 20 minutes of TV this week. It was MotorWeek on the Velocity Channel. I have a TiVo season pass so I can skip through the commercials. That figure rarely exceeds an hour per week and when it does, it's Morgan Freeman hosting Through the Wormhole or something similar, also recorded. I don't listen to talk radio because the format is too slow for me, loaded with commercials and I won't cede control of any media consumption as a general principle. It's mostly a boring rehash of information I've already read. I don't require a talking head to interpret it.

The younger people are, the less passive program format TV they watch. Technically adept folks are past that, much to the consternation of media companies and their advertisers.

*Fox Derangement Syndrome


Indy: Posted: July 16, 2014 6:28 p.m.

Stray . . . let’s try this debating thing again:

But why do 74% of republicans that purchased health plans through the ACA like them?

Why has the % of insured Americans gone down to the lowest in 10 years?

Why did 8+ million Americans sign up for the ACA?

And why are republican controlled states not allowing their poor to take the benefits of the Medicaid expansion?

Please enlighten me with your answers . . . here’s your chance!


tech: Posted: July 17, 2014 12:00 a.m.

Stray . . . let’s try this debating thing again:… - Indy

This technique is known as framing, stray. Let's see how you respond. That is, if you're willing to invest in Indy's endless churn designed to exhaust his opposition.


ricketzz: Posted: July 17, 2014 10:02 a.m.

Obviously Fox News is not designed for the youth market. It is designed to appeal to the old pensioners who vote every election and who direct this country because our elected representatives don't have the courage to put their seats on the line for the greater good of their constituents. Fox News is part of a cynical system based on Gerrymandering and institutionalized bribery.

I have audio on my desktop today. I listen to internet radio on an Internet Radio appliance, or on my phone via Tune-In, I Heart, Shoutcast, etc. You are not fooling the kids one bit. They have written you off. You know those New Metal bands with the singer all guttural and Cookie Monster like? Listen to the words; half the songs are about how YOU wrecked the world. You should be proud.


stray: Posted: July 17, 2014 12:05 p.m.

@tech - "That is, if you're willing to invest in Indy's endless churn designed to exhaust his opposition"

Thanks! You couldn't have said it better! As I mentioned to Indy in my first post, I have observed his endless, very lengthy posts for quite a while. Evidently, he's retired and has more time than any of us to continue "brain washing" us with his Liberal mindset. I'm not in a position to research and debate someone who will constantly "beat up" anything I write while attempting to prove me wrong.

I'm OUT Indy! Fix yourself another tall glass of Kool-Aid and have a nice day Indy!

See ya around tech!

@cricketzz - "Fox News is part of a cynical system based on Gerrymandering and institutionalized bribery"

Plz remind me what planet you're on!


Indy: Posted: July 17, 2014 5:05 p.m.

Indy wrote: Stray . . . let’s try this debating thing again:

But why do 74% of republicans that purchased health plans through the ACA like them?

Why has the % of insured Americans gone down to the lowest in 10 years?

Why did 8+ million Americans sign up for the ACA?

And why are republican controlled states not allowing their poor to take the benefits of the Medicaid expansion?

Stray wrote: I'm OUT Indy! Fix yourself another tall glass of Kool-Aid and have a nice day Indy!

Indy: Can you see the denial here from a conservative bathed in Fox ‘innuendo and speculation’ and simply can’t even see reality?

I guess I’ll take the poster at his words ‘I'm OUT Indy’ . . . in that this guy is so far out from reality, that ‘seeing’ it simply shuts him down.

And that’s Ok for this guy . . . . but please if you care about our nation, get out from underneath this very ‘narrow’ view of libertarian market fundamentalism that is simply designed to refute what the Founding Fathers had in mind in creating this great nation and including the Constitution’s preamble ‘promote the general welfare’.

Note it doesn’t say ‘promote the wealthy’ or ‘promote religious conservatism’, or even ‘promote me, myself, and I’, but ‘promote the general welfare’ for ‘we the people’.

You can go back to bed, Stray . . . your time is up!


tech: Posted: July 17, 2014 5:30 p.m.

"Evidently, he's retired and has more time than any of us to continue "brain washing" us with his Liberal mindset." - stray

Indy may work for a government entity, stray. I know, a distinction without a difference. :-D


stray: Posted: July 18, 2014 1:49 a.m.

@Indy - "What the Founding Fathers had in mind in creating this great nation and including the Constitution"

Wow Indy, I thought by suggesting to have another Kool-Aid to calm down all your propaganda would work, but evidently you need more Kool-Aid to penetrate your through your numb body!

What??? Constitution you say ???? Are you talking about that same Constitution that YOUR Messiah completely ignores and tweaks to his desire ??? Yes, you sure are Indy... Even the SCOTUS has already ruled that he's way out of line and cannot legally do things without going thru the Congress for approval. That's why I despise him so much because he thinks he's above that same Constitution and he's the closest "thing" to a dictator. His attitude is "F the law, - no need to enforce illegal immigration because I've got my own plan... Yep, just come on in, and we'll soak the American taxpayer to feed illegals, clothe them, provide medical care for them, we'll educate them, etc., and that will broaden our Libtard looney population, and we'll get their vote! That will fix those damn Republican obstructionists!"

He has this kind of attitude, "I'll do everything I can to avoid the Congress and the Constitution and I'll do everything my way, and F all of you peasant Americans, especially you Republicans. F all the lies about my promises for keeping your own doctor, F all the lies about keeping your own health care plan, F anybody that doesn't agree with me because they must be a racist." Want more Indy ??? Hey, the day isn't long enough to spew all that diarrhea that comes out of his mouth with all those false promises! Like DMeyer has stated several times, he's still waiting for that check in the mail that your Messiah promised. I am also waiting! To me, anybody that follows and worships Obozo has to be a complete imbecile!

Yep, that's the buffoon you and your Libtard cronies voted for Indy! Trust me, Obozo will go down in history as the weakest, most inept, most sly, arrogant idiot EVER !!! What a disgrace he is to the American people! Thanks all you idiots that voted for him! ** That's why this article is called "Obozo Remains a Question Mark" ** The entire world questions why so many stupid Americans voted for this loser twice!

Yeah Indy, I'm going to bed because you give me a headache with all your twisted propaganda! :)


stray: Posted: July 18, 2014 2:03 a.m.

Here ya go...

http://www.twcc.com/articles/2014/07/17/h/hollywood-hot-mess-jon-voight-disses-the-dems


ricketzz: Posted: July 18, 2014 10:39 a.m.

SCOTUS said the Senate gets to define "recess"; then proceeds to make up rules out of thin air. "Five days?" "Ten days?" "Yes, ten days."

This Stray guy offends me. "Retard" should only be used to discuss ignition timing.


stray: Posted: July 18, 2014 11:02 a.m.

@criketzz - "This Stray guy offends me"

That's a good thing!


Indy: Posted: July 18, 2014 10:15 p.m.

Stray wrote: @Indy - "What the Founding Fathers had in mind in creating this great nation and including the Constitution"

Wow Indy, I thought by suggesting to have another Kool-Aid to calm down all your propaganda would work, but evidently you need more Kool-Aid to penetrate your through your numb body!

Indy: What I find a common trait for conservatives that like to recite slogans and talking points is how you ‘open’ your posts.

You first try to discredit somebody by calling them names.

Now I realize this works with fellow ‘like mind’ posters . . . it’s a quick and convenient way to dismiss anyone that disagrees with you.

In any proper debating arena, however, you’d be laughed right out . . .

But in forums like this, you can pretty much use that strategy and gain acceptance from your fellow brethren that agree you.

Great. I get it . . . if you need to waste the keystrokes . . . go ahead, it’s your time that is being wasted.


Indy: Posted: July 18, 2014 10:21 p.m.

Stray wrote: What??? Constitution you say ???? Are you talking about that same Constitution that YOUR Messiah completely ignores and tweaks to his desire ??? Yes, you sure are Indy... Even the SCOTUS has already ruled that he's way out of line and cannot legally do things without going thru the Congress for approval. That's why I despise him so much because he thinks he's above that same Constitution and he's the closest "thing" to a dictator. His attitude is "F the law, - no need to enforce illegal immigration because I've got my own plan... Yep, just come on in, and we'll soak the American taxpayer to feed illegals, clothe them, provide medical care for them, we'll educate them, etc., and that will broaden our Libtard looney population, and we'll get their vote! That will fix those damn Republican obstructionists!"

Indy: I give you high marks for reciting the Fox version of ‘innuendo and speculaion’ that is basis of the frivolous lawsuit being put forth by Boehner.

It will be interesting to see how the public ‘judges’ the conservative majority House and you on this . . .

In the meantime, the President is going about ‘doing his job’ not sitting there in the House refusing to vote on legislation . . .

Stray wrote: He has this kind of attitude, "I'll do everything I can to avoid the Congress and the Constitution and I'll do everything my way, and F all of you peasant Americans, especially you Republicans. F all the lies about my promises for keeping your own doctor, F all the lies about keeping your own health care plan, F anybody that doesn't agree with me because they must be a racist." Want more Indy ??? Hey, the day isn't long enough to spew all that diarrhea that comes out of his mouth with all those false promises! Like DMeyer has stated several times, he's still waiting for that check in the mail that your Messiah promised. I am also waiting! To me, anybody that follows and worships Obozo has to be a complete imbecile!

Indy: You go boy . . .


Indy: Posted: July 18, 2014 10:22 p.m.

Stray wrote: Yep, that's the buffoon you and your Libtard cronies voted for Indy! Trust me, Obozo will go down in history as the weakest, most inept, most sly, arrogant idiot EVER !!! What a disgrace he is to the American people! Thanks all you idiots that voted for him! ** That's why this article is called "Obozo Remains a Question Mark" ** The entire world questions why so many stupid Americans voted for this loser twice!

Yeah Indy, I'm going to bed because you give me a headache with all your twisted propaganda!:)

Indy: Well at least you identified an interesting term:
Buffon ( French byfɔ̃) - Noun


Georges Louis Leclerc (ʒɔrʒ lwi ləklɛr), Comte de . 1707--88, French encyclopedist of natural history; principal author of Histoire naturelle (36 vols., 1749--89), containing the Époques de la nature (1777), which foreshadowed later theories of evolution

I often wondered where that term came from and indeed you can see . . .
. . . but at least your posts are entertaining . . .


stray: Posted: July 18, 2014 11:42 p.m.

@Indy -"But at least your posts are entertaining"

Gee Indy, how do I thank you for being so kind? Have another Kool-Aid! My posts might appear even funnier!


tech: Posted: July 19, 2014 3:10 a.m.

Your incompetence extends to etymology as well, Indy.

Buffoon

NOUN

A ridiculous but amusing person; a clown.

Origin

mid 16th century: from French bouffon, from Italian buffone, from medieval Latin buffo 'clown'. Originally recorded as a rare Scots word for a kind of pantomime dance, the term later (late 16th century) denoted a professional jester.

Poor, sad little troll.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CijcaA9yq58/SvbLqOrAEtI/AAAAAAAAEHY/lkD0GIuHSn8/s400/clown+closeup+new.jpg


ricketzz: Posted: July 19, 2014 9:30 a.m.

Bullies should be culled from the database. They are the source of much trouble.


stray: Posted: July 19, 2014 9:36 a.m.

@Indy -

Suggestion - Have some more Kool-Aid... It's nice not to have to read your rhetoric!

@cricketzz - "Bullies should be culled from the database"

And loonies should be removed from the Planet.

--edited.


tech: Posted: July 19, 2014 11:16 a.m.

"Bullies should be culled from the database. They are the source of much trouble." - ricketzz

"I am definitely a believer in a superior power, but that superior power is the synergy of a mob. I bow to no one." - ricketzz


ricketzz: Posted: July 20, 2014 10:01 a.m.

I changed "gene pool" to "database", to tone down the rhetoric.

Sometimes a mob is needed to set things right. The kindness of Aristocrats isn't working.


tech: Posted: July 20, 2014 1:52 p.m.

Have you ever noted a correlation between mobs and the bullying of those with minority opinions, ricketzz?


Indy: Posted: July 21, 2014 4:23 p.m.

Stray wrote: @Indy -"But at least your posts are entertaining"

Gee Indy, how do I thank you for being so kind? Have another Kool-Aid! My posts might appear even funnier!

Indy: Hey, kool-aid is for kids . . . I like diet coke!

But hey, since you’re in a festive mood, why not answer these questions:

But why do 74% of republicans that purchased health plans through the ACA like them?

Why has the % of insured Americans gone down to the lowest in 10 years?

Why did 8+ million Americans sign up for the ACA?

And why are republican controlled states not allowing their poor to take the benefits of the Medicaid expansion?

I’m sure everyone here is just ‘dying’ to know your thoughts on this . . .


tech: Posted: July 22, 2014 12:54 p.m.

If Obamacare is about health care "reform" and "bending the cost curve down", subsidies are of little import, right?

WASHINGTON—Two U.S. appeals courts issued conflicting rulings on the availability of consumer subsidies for health coverage purchased on insurance exchanges established by the federal government, clouding implementation of a major component of the Obama administration's signature health care law.

In a substantial blow to the administration, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, on a 2-1 vote, invalidated an Internal Revenue Service regulation that implemented a key piece of the 2010 Affordable Care Act. The regulation said subsidies for health insurance were available to qualifying middle- and low-income consumers whether they bought coverage on a state exchange or one run by the federal government.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/key-section-of-health-care-law-struck-down-by-appeals-court-1406039685


stray: Posted: July 22, 2014 3:45 p.m.

Thanks tech for posting what I was just going to post for Indy. Yep, the SCOTUS will continue to oversee and rule on this so-called ACA... Affordable ??? LMAO!!!

Indy, please listen to the news that CNN and MSNBC and others won't broadcast. Otherwise, you're narrowing your mindset! But, be assured, people like tech, myself, and others will post them here for you! Okay, you don't like Kool-Aid, so have some booze with your diet coke and it will keep you calm on these boards while we educate you... :)


Indy: Posted: July 22, 2014 10:04 p.m.

Stray wrote: Thanks tech for posting what I was just going to post for Indy. Yep, the SCOTUS will continue to oversee and rule on this so-called ACA... Affordable ??? LMAO!!!

Indy: Yeah, I’m not surprised these court cases are popping up . . . even with one court saying nay while the other saying yes.

We already know that republicans have tried 50+ times to repeal or constrict the ACA.

We’ve already seen the conservatives go to the SCOTUS and lose . . .

But again, why not answer these questions:

But why do 74% of republicans that purchased health plans through the ACA like them?

Why has the % of insured Americans gone down to the lowest in 10 years?

Why did 8+ million Americans sign up for the ACA?

And why are republican controlled states not allowing their poor to take the benefits of the Medicaid expansion?

Why ignore the reality? How does that help?


stray: Posted: July 23, 2014 12:05 a.m.

@Indy - "But again, why not answer these questions"

If I was retired like you are, I would have lots of time to step into the ring. But, I cannot answer questions in two sentences. So, I simply cannot spend the amount of time to give an educated response to your questions... As you can determine, I haven't been on the boards in any detail lately, as my schedule won't permit it right now.


Indy: Posted: July 23, 2014 5:56 p.m.

Stray wrote: @Indy - "But again, why not answer these questions"

If I was retired like you are, I would have lots of time to step into the ring. But, I cannot answer questions in two sentences. So, I simply cannot spend the amount of time to give an educated response to your questions... As you can determine, I haven't been on the boards in any detail lately, as my schedule won't permit it right now.

Indy: Most Americans have a hard time with reality . . . and simply can’t devote the time to ‘think’ . . . just listen and recite slogans from their respective party.

In any event, I do appreciate your honesty . . . and indeed ‘time is money’!


ricketzz: Posted: July 31, 2014 9:48 a.m.

Large public gatherings are what you get when voting no longer works. Nobody wants to stifle minority ideas; we want government that believes in science and investing in people. The House of Representatives is not a valid representative body. The Gerrymandering has delivered to us the most extremist Congress ever. Yesterday they screwed the pooch. They sued Obama for dragging his feet implementing a law they voted 50 times to repeal. What is their standing? Where is the harm to whom? I can't wait to see the Magistrate that accepts that ridiculous stunt.



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